Jump to content



Photo

Force Move - Using Melee Weapons at Range - Thoughts?


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 jcutcher

jcutcher

    Member

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:22 AM

So, I'm making a Force Senstive ISB Nemesis as a recurring villain for my PC's.

Looking for interesting ways to use the Move Power, and was looking at the Control Upgrade that costs 15 points. 

 

States you can use objects at power range, as though you were holding them in your hands. 

I immediately thought of other games where you see characters using Lightsabers at range. 

 

Now, in this case it would be some other melee weapon, but still.  A little more spice than simply throwing things at them. 

 

If someone were using weapons at range with this power, would the weapon's attack be a Discipline check or would it use the appropriate fighting skill (brawl/melee/lightsaber)?

 

Would love to hear the thoughts of other GM's.

 

Thanks in advance.



#2 Ryoden

Ryoden

    Member

  • Members
  • 92 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:49 AM

I would say it is a Melee skill but modified by Willpower not Brawl.


  • whafrog likes this

#3 2P51

2P51

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,396 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:53 AM

I'd allow the ol lightsaber toss, but not full on wielding.


  • Kshatriya and iandimitri like this

My group's Obsidian Portal campaign site: It's All in the Trigger Squeeze


#4 Ghostofman

Ghostofman

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,286 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:08 AM

I'd allow the ol lightsaber toss, but not full on wielding.

Kreia_KotORCG.jpg

I find your lack of awesome disturbing.

 

 

It is a tricky one, though, but as an NPC allowing a character like this to commit a force die to be able to make lightsaber/melee attacks at short instead of engaged range would probably work.


  • PatientWolf likes this

MAGIC HEADPHONES PROTECT ME FROM THE SPACE!


#5 kaosoe

kaosoe

    Not the GM my players need, but the one they deserve.

  • Members
  • 1,273 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:51 AM

 

I'd allow the ol lightsaber toss, but not full on wielding.

I find your lack of awesome disturbing.

 

 

It is a tricky one, though, but as an NPC allowing a character like this to commit a force die to be able to make lightsaber/melee attacks at short instead of engaged range would probably work.

 

I like the simplicity of this. This would ultimately allow the force wielder to attack without the ranged people upgrading their attacks.

 

I think I would adopt something like this for a PC, but have it be a control upgrade I could tack on to the end of the move tree.


Edited by kaosoe, 14 May 2014 - 08:51 AM.

Scavenger - On the d20Radio forums.

Pronounced: Kay - Oh - So


#6 awayputurwpn

awayputurwpn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,326 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:14 PM

I think the point of the OP was that the Control Upgrade is already there. The PC in question can already "do what he can normally do with his hands" using the Force, and wielding a weapon would seem to fall under that category.

At this point, it's up to the GM to make a reasonable ruling on the matter. "No, you can't do that" is, IMO, a bad answer. How much more mastery of the Move power does one need? He's spent a bucketload of XP to make his character awesome at telekinesis. The rules say he can do it. Now all he needs is a difficulty and an idea of how to build his dice pool. Enter the GM.



#7 Ryoden

Ryoden

    Member

  • Members
  • 92 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:28 PM

Hence the reason ...

I would say it is a Melee skill but modified by Willpower not Brawl.

You don't want it to be too complicated for your npc or for your player who will be doing it as soon as they have the requisite control power.



#8 kaosoe

kaosoe

    Not the GM my players need, but the one they deserve.

  • Members
  • 1,273 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:37 PM

I think the point of the OP was that the Control Upgrade is already there. The PC in question can already "do what he can normally do with his hands" using the Force, and wielding a weapon would seem to fall under that category.

At this point, it's up to the GM to make a reasonable ruling on the matter. "No, you can't do that" is, IMO, a bad answer. How much more mastery of the Move power does one need? He's spent a bucketload of XP to make his character awesome at telekinesis. The rules say he can do it. Now all he needs is a difficulty and an idea of how to build his dice pool. Enter the GM.

 

Apologies. The point flew right over my head.

 

In that case, committing a Force Die and using discipline in place of the usual weapon roll and treat it as a combat skill - similar to how using move works with projectiles - is a simple solution to me.


  • awayputurwpn likes this

Scavenger - On the d20Radio forums.

Pronounced: Kay - Oh - So


#9 awayputurwpn

awayputurwpn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,326 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 03:58 PM

Hence the reason ...

I would say it is a Melee skill but modified by Willpower not Brawl.

You don't want it to be too complicated for your npc or for your player who will be doing it as soon as they have the requisite control power.

Swapping out Brawn for Willpower is totally what I'd do here, not at all complicated. But again, to each GM his own. I would only make that call because I know my players would get it really easily and it makes sense to me.


Edited by awayputurwpn, 14 May 2014 - 03:59 PM.

  • whafrog likes this

#10 whafrog

whafrog

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,344 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 04:38 PM

I find your lack of awesome disturbing.

 

I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I don't find that awesome.  Nobody in canon does this, not even Sidious.

 

Anyway, given the power, I'd also swap Brawn for Willpower.  Can't get much simpler.


Edited by whafrog, 14 May 2014 - 04:39 PM.

  • Dbuntu and 2P51 like this

#11 Donovan Morningfire

Donovan Morningfire

    Looking for a saint? Look elsewhere.

  • Members
  • 3,492 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:17 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking that this is exactly the sort of thing that would require the Force user to commit a Force die to maintaining the effect past the initial round; perhaps have it be an Action to activate the effect, and then an Incidental to commit a Force die to telekinetically wielding the weapon.  Or if they really want to go the Darth Traya route, commit a Force die per weapon, and using the rules for dual-wielding if they want to attack with both of them in the same round which each weapon used in the attack adding a difficulty die to the roll.  Two weapons is +1 difficulty die, three weapons is +2 difficulty dice, four weapons is +3 difficulty dice, and so on, with each weapon past the first requiring 2 Advantage each in order to hit the target.

 

As for what skill to use, while I agree that the base Characteristic would be Willpower, I'd say the character has to use the lower of their Melee/Lightsaber or Discipline skill to make the attack.

 

Damage value is a bit more interesting, particularly for Melee weapons where the wielder's Brawn is a major component of the weapon's damage value.  While Willpower sounds like the go-to Characteristic, there's the matter of Force users often bumping that Characteristic to at least a 3 at character creation in many instances.  While not on par with a dedicated beatstick such as the Marauder, it still gives them an edge, but said edge is offset by the sheer amount of XP required not only to purchase the various Move Upgrades to get to that point, but the XP cost of increasing their Force Rating as well.


  • iandimitri likes this

Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog - http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/

"You worry about those drink vouchers, I'll worry about that bar tab!"


#12 2P51

2P51

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,396 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:22 PM

 

I find your lack of awesome disturbing.

 

I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I don't find that awesome.  Nobody in canon does this, not even Sidious.

 

Anyway, given the power, I'd also swap Brawn for Willpower.  Can't get much simpler.

 

No, I agree for more or less the same reason.  Also Willpower is what would be appropriate.


  • iandimitri likes this

My group's Obsidian Portal campaign site: It's All in the Trigger Squeeze


#13 Kalrunoor

Kalrunoor

    Member

  • Members
  • 78 posts

Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:46 AM

I'm going to buck popular sentiment amnd say no way for two reasons.

1. If I allow this I also have to allow Force Choke something move was not meant to be able to do.

2. The move ability is something you roll every turn, I'm retty sure what is meant by this last upgrade is allowing to make fine movements: pressing buttons, flipping levers, unscrewing power couplings.
"... and thus our hero met his timely and well deserved fate."

#14 Dbuntu

Dbuntu

    Member

  • Members
  • 306 posts

Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:56 AM

 

I find your lack of awesome disturbing.

 

I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I don't find that awesome.  Nobody in canon does this, not even Sidious.

 

Anyway, given the power, I'd also swap Brawn for Willpower.  Can't get much simpler.

 

We can share the minority.

Throwing a lightsaber (or I guess any reasonable weapon), we can probably work out some sort of mechanic for. Improvised weapon rules for sure, then maybe requiring a Discipline check and a Manuever to bring it back on the next turn?

Beyond that just feels like munchkinism to me.



#15 ccarlson101

ccarlson101

    Member

  • Members
  • 390 posts

Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:32 AM

I share concerns with some that this trick - being able to swap in the (likely higher) Willpower stat over Brawn, and the benefit of using a scary melee weapon from safely at range - is just too much win:win as to be viable mechanically.


That's SCIENCE!


#16 Kalrunoor

Kalrunoor

    Member

  • Members
  • 78 posts

Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:55 AM

I'm also thinking this is something that is more likely to show up in F&D. This is way to advanced a Force mechanic for untrained and still learning force users.
  • awayputurwpn likes this
"... and thus our hero met his timely and well deserved fate."

#17 yeti1069

yeti1069

    Member

  • Members
  • 224 posts

Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:34 PM

I'd probably use the appropriate combat skill for the weapon coupled with Willpower as others have suggested, then I'd do one of the following:

  1. Increase the difficulty of landing the attacks by 1 from whatever it would normally be, or
  2. Upgrade the difficulty, or
  3. Add a Setback die

After all, it should be challenging to pull this off, even if I think that it is absolutely covered by the final Move Control Upgrade.

 

If simply committing a Force Die per weapon being wielded in this way seems too lenient, I'd say that the character would have to activate the power as normal, rolling their Force Rating along with the modified combat skill check--obviously, if they fail to roll light side pips (and decide to not tap the dark side), the strategy doesn't get off the ground. If they want to wield multiple weapons, they'd need to have Magnitude Upgrades and the pips to activate those as well. Possibly allow Range Upgrades, but if I did, I'd definitely make the combat checks increasingly difficult. I like Donovan's suggestion for the rules governing attacking with multiple weapons.

 

Then, I'd probably require the character to commit as many Force Dice to the task as they like, rolling whatever dice are committed each round with their modified combat check. I know that this isn't the way the commit mechanic works, but I see it as a combination of the idea of concentrating that the commit mechanic conveys, as well as still allowing for the possibility of that concentration faltering. This would allow someone to activate 3 weapons, but possibly drop one or two of them partway through the fight due to a poor roll.

 

I'd say that, if simply committing the dice, without having to keep rolling for the power, I'd probably increase or upgrade the difficulty of the combat check, but if having the commit/reroll hybrid, I'd simply add a Setback to the combat check.

 

A Despair should probably result in the weapon being dropped, or thrown.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS