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How do you draw characters and have you put aside any overpowered ones?


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#41 Granville

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:37 PM

Why is having Strength 1 so bad for the Sprite? The Troll has a Craft 1 and you don't see anyone complaining about him...

Sorry to get off topic here but this is a great question.

 

The Sprite gets a fistful of spells and the Troll gets regeneration of 6 as well as Life 6. The characters are polar opposites but when we deal out characters, people are happy to take the Troll and the Sprite is often discarded, which I find odd.

 

Now the reason I like the Troll over the Sprite is a personal preference, but it does have it's utility. With a couple of Strength cones the Troll can freely move past the Sentinel on a whim, so if you're hovering around in the hidden valley section of the middle region, he can then hop back and forth over the bridge, should a nice card turn up on the bottom part of the outer region. Also I'm one of those players that draws a Spell I like and hold onto it the entire game,(For some reason this Spell always ends up being Transference) so cycling spells is of limited use for my (poor) play style.

 

Then again I'm one of those players that avoids the City, Tavern and Village spaces (Or I should say, the Enchantress, Mystic and Tavern tables) unless I need to heal in an emergency, or the other option to land on is a bad option.

 

And I dont like to use the Axe-to-Raft deal unless I'm desperate.



#42 Rigmaster

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:40 PM

 

 

The only restrication we have from that is that we only draw dragon characters when the dragon expansion is played, as they tend to be more powerful than the others (I know it's not true for all of them but we handle them as a group).

 

That's kind of odd, as most of the characters are weaker when not used in combination with the Dragon expansion. Abilities that are directly related to dragons or breath attacks see much less light of day when not used in combination with the Dragon expansion.

 

 

The Minotaur and Conjurer are standard characters and I cannot see why you cannot mix them freely with the others. They're powerful, but that has nothing to do with Dragons or scales.

 

The Dragon Hunter and Fire Wizard are exceedingly powerful when there are many Dragons and scales around, but are quite solid in any game of Talisman. Deathblow works in every battle and so does the pyroblast. Fire Wizard has an in-built Spellbook as well.

 

Dragon Rider and Dragon Priestess, as I've already said, have mostly abilities that pivot on Dragons. With less than 20 Dragons dispersed in a huge Adventure deck and in other Region decks, your chances to encounter them and put the abilities to good use are tiny. The Priestess can focus on the Temple, but without many Cultists to get as free bonuses (they're more common in the Dragon decks) she can only hope to get as many Followers as possible. The Dragon Rider, on the other hand, is a character that has a permanent Holy Lance that must look for a Dragon to get a real chance. Otherwise, she's a good-aligned Str 3 Cft 4 character with 3 fate and no abilities.

 

As I said, I'm aware it's not true for all of them, but we tend to leave the whole dragon expansion out when not used. But when we play a dragon everybody can draw one dragon character and one from the rest. Lately we've become more expansion bound and use only characters from the expansions we're using, for good or bad.

 

First we had the minotaur and the conjurer with the other characters but not now. As for dragon rider and dragon priestess, they can be really good in a dragon game but, especially the priestess, tend to be all but useless in normal game. I hate to play all by luck, I want some skill in the gameplay and with the priestess it all comes down to which cards you draw.

 

That's the only explanation I have on this subject, however odd it seems. But lately we've been trying around different combinations of expansions (both small and big box) trying to see how they work together, and especially when the small boxes are alone with the base game. To really feel the theme they want to add to the game we use remove all characters, spells and adventure cards from unused expansions. It's been a really interesting expirence, that I can recommend to all of you.



#43 Sacrilege83

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:03 AM

My friend owned second edition and we always set aside the Prophetess and Wizard.  Now I own fourth, I don't want to set aside any powerful character.  It should be common sense that if a player draws a powerful character, then that  character should be killed on sight.

 

When selecting a character in my group, each player rolls a die and we randomly draw the amount of the highest die roll which is usually 6.



#44 Granville

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 10:52 PM

My friend owned second edition and we always set aside the Prophetess and Wizard.  Now I own fourth, I don't want to set aside any powerful character.  It should be common sense that if a player draws a powerful character, then that  character should be killed on sight.

 

When selecting a character in my group, each player rolls a die and we randomly draw the amount of the highest die roll which is usually 6.

Pretty much this. We always manage 6 players and we always draw three characters. We have all the expansion so this means the Alchemist has about a 1 in 4 chance of showing up at our game. None of us love him at this point but sometimes it's hard to say no to not using him, however you know you are signing up to be dogpiled when playing him. He's about the closest thing we have to a banned character right now, but we still throw him into the mix.


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#45 Granville

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 11:03 PM

Also of note I play the Dragon Priestess so well now, that my table wants to ban her, because after attaining a certain amount of followers and getting the right prayer cards and dragons on the board she can be rather annoying to deal with.

 

But it's more than I've spent a lot of time divulging a particular strategy for that character where i've calculated the odds on a few things. I dont think she is overpowered, more like a late game Alchemist at best



#46 Jake yet again

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 12:54 PM

Two characters, pick one.


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#47 Uvatha

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:04 PM

Also of note I play the Dragon Priestess so well now, that my table wants to ban her, because after attaining a certain amount of followers and getting the right prayer cards and dragons on the board she can be rather annoying to deal with.

 

But it's more than I've spent a lot of time divulging a particular strategy for that character where i've calculated the odds on a few things. I dont think she is overpowered, more like a late game Alchemist at best

The Dragon Priestess is a cool character indeed. I think this goes with every chracter the challenge is to see and use each characters abilities without getting stuck on "the easy ones" to see their protental. You will notice players (once they get used to the character choices) getting wise on all of the characters abilities and of course teaming up is always a great way of causing players character choice to be different or make them think again on their character pick.

 

Remember no one ever said the chracters were "balanced" I think they are very close to being balanced but its not what your character does its what you do with your chracter... Oh and dumb luck too of course :).



#48 Deornwulf

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:52 PM

By the new rules, the Sprite can make more use out of the warhorse than most other characters. It seems odd but the crafty characters are the most dangerous when combined with a warhorse and a flail, yet strength characters are left out In the cold without any way to add Strength in Psychic Combat.



#49 DomaGB

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:47 AM

This is one of the reasons my group doesn't play with the new rules, however this may be changing as the player who resists it the most has started playing the DE version, and is starting to warm up to the rule changes, such as this one (Warhorse and Monk).


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#50 Vandal Thorne

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:07 PM

I'm sorry, I must have missed this. Can someone point me at the rules change? Does the monk's "craft ability" no longer mean that he's limited to adding his starting craft?



#51 Artaterxes

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:29 PM

I'm sorry, I must have missed this. Can someone point me at the rules change? Does the monk's "craft ability" no longer mean that he's limited to adding his starting craft?

 

It means players who are used to the 80's game want to continue adding 15 Craft rather than 3. :P


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#52 talismanamsilat

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:45 AM

I'm sorry, I must have missed this. Can someone point me at the rules change? Does the monk's "craft ability" no longer mean that he's limited to adding his starting craft?

 
It means players who are used to the 80's game want to continue adding 15 Craft rather than 3. :P

Which is why it was changed in the new version... You could always add the Monk's Craft counters instead of all Craft!

#53 Vandal Thorne

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:59 AM

Oh...I've never played the older editions. IMO, the older way sounds way to OP.



#54 Nioreh

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:01 AM

Oh...I've never played the older editions. IMO, the older way sounds way to OP.

 

..and thus the nerfing :)



#55 Vandal Thorne

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:42 AM

Speaking of OP, anyone else play the expansion characters in the digital edition? I've been playing them alot lately and am starting to find that they make the game too easy, it's like each one has just one ability to many or makes another character totally obsolete (e.g., the Genie or the Exorcist vs. Priest, respectively). I am hoping to see characters with similar themes in some future character-only expansion but I also hope they rigorously playtest them and do some nerfing. 



#56 wmtheta

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:50 PM

Speaking of OP, anyone else play the expansion characters in the digital edition? I've been playing them alot lately and am starting to find that they make the game too easy, it's like each one has just one ability to many or makes another character totally obsolete (e.g., the Genie or the Exorcist vs. Priest, respectively). I am hoping to see characters with similar themes in some future character-only expansion but I also hope they rigorously playtest them and do some nerfing.  

I think the Martyr is the most powerful of the new characters from the digital edition, especially with the Dungeon or Highlands expansion. Obviously the Genie and Exorcist are better than the Priest, but isn't everyone?

Anyway, my friends and I have tried a number of different methods for character selection:

1. Each player gets 5 random cards. Then each player may ban up to 2 characters held by other players. You can choose not to ban any characters, and you can choose to ban a player's character even if two or more of his characters have already been banned. Then, for each banned character a player has, he draws two new random characters from the deck.

2. Each player gets 5 random cards and chooses 1. The chosen characters are shuffled and distributed to the players randomly.

 

We've changed around many bans there are and how many cards get distributed. I prefer less cards (so that the less played characters get played every once in awhile) but my friends don't always see it that way.

 

We've found that the second method results in middle of the road characters being played, while the first results in generally powerful characters. 


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#57 Granville

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 06:04 AM

The Genie is pretty nasty. Out of the Digital Edition charcters to choose from he's my favorite.

 

I like the Martyr too but I don't see them as horrible.

 

The Exorcist is really a better Priest, But the Priest is maybe one of the worst characters right now along with the "new" Monk.

 

Being as the Priest and Monk have high Fate and I believe Fate is used as kind of a balancing crutch, I think with Dark Fate these two will become much better characters.

 

The Priest is pretty nice if you have the Neither Deck in play.



#58 Vandal Thorne

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 07:36 AM

Conversely I find the Priest and Monk to both be really good characters, easily on par with the likes of the Thief, Sorceress, and Warrior. With the Priest I can just straight up convert craft 1 or 2 spirits into spells and the monk comes with a built in warhorse effect which gives a nice early game advantage as he'll be stronger than many other characters with weapons. I don't see their inability to use weapons during battle as much of a weakness since they can use them in psychic combat. The Priest, especially, will be taking the craft route to victory and, with a few victories under his belt the Monk is quite competitive on the Strength route. If you're playing with one of the expansions that includes the Warhorse, his ability even stacks with it. The Ghoul is the only character I find frustrating, and it's mostly because his abilities lack anything resembling focus.


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#59 Zozimus

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:09 AM

This topic of which character is "overpowered" or "sucky" goes back at least 30 years, in my experience of playing 2nd ed. Talisman when I was a kid.  As someone who's played this for decades, I can say pretty confidently that the randomness of the game basically means that no character is automatically over- or under-powered.  Anyone can win at any time.  And there's something satisfying about winning with a character you wouldn't have chosen, especially if it's after you've already died once and drawn a new one you didn't like.  Randomize as much as possible in this game:  it's what makes Talisman Talisman!  It's not a game for those who like to plan  ;-)


Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play. - Heraclitus


#60 jackyboy

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:17 PM

In one of the groups I play it is a simple, draw 1 from random, then you get one mullygon but have to play with the second choice. I've played with many of the characters using this method. This is playing the 2nd edition however...

 

In another group I play with playing 4th edition, since I haven't had the expansions very long and I got them all at once, we are playing one expansion at a time, using the characters from the expansion. Once everyone has had a game with each character, a new expansion is selected.

 

One method I have been toying with is the give every character a number, then roll 2 D10 dice to come up with a two digit number (one die for tens, one die for units) - Just need to number every character now! lol

 

As for OVERPOWERED - although we do not take any characters out, you can tell by the evil laughter when someone draws the prothetess or the assassin or monk :D






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