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How do you draw characters and have you put aside any overpowered ones?


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#21 JediKnightAmoeba

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:50 AM

Man, all you guys and your socialist ways of picking Characters.  Jeez, I want freedom of choice; to be who I want to be!!  :-)  Out of the 20+ years I have been playing miniature games, board games and the like I have always been able to pick.  

 

I do know the Alchemist in 4th edition is a FAR CRY better than the 3rd edition Alchemist.  He is tough but the Objects that he is going to want to Alchemize are also the objects that will be great for his stats.  I don't know, I have only seen him used a couple times and he never did anything special.  

 

Like I said earlier, when you have 6+ people playing the Tavern Maid is quite a beast.  She steals everyone's Gold , objects and starts with potions.

 

But the Sprite, seriously, what were they thinking?  Strength 1?  She gets a mosquito bite and She is done.  



#22 Draii

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:54 AM

We usuallu just agree beforehand.

If there are new players they might have a free go, picking with their eyes so to speak. But since there are alot of characters it's not always recomended. Might take some time if someone really wants to win, and have to read and understand all the special abilities beforehand.

 

When playing with veteran players we usually deal a hand for each player and choose from whan we were dealt. Lately we have dealt 5-7 cards for each player and that player keep 3 characters. 1 to play, and 2 backups the player have to get through before randomising new characters (but we don't usually go through more than 2-3 death per player during a game anyway). This gives the players some choice from what they were dealt, but still might have to go outside their prefered ones.

 

Since I have been putting together statistics from our games, I can easily see that some characters; like the Assassin, Dark cultist and Sprite actually get choosen alot more than some others, so right now we just deal cards from the "underdogs" and new characters, so they will be played too. Underdogs from the earlier boxes in our group are; Priest, Sorceress, Ghoul, Thief, Philosopher and Gladiator. So they will see some more games in the future to show what they got.

 

And for some fun bonus; The top characters (for winning) in our games are:

Warrior

Troll

Prophetess

Warlock

Minstrel

 

And some characters that have been played alot (more than the five above), but never survived;

Assassin

Sprite

Dragon rider

Dread knight

Ogre chieftain

 

Edit: Typo.


Edited by Draii, 15 May 2014 - 09:48 AM.


#23 0beron

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:21 AM

It may be that for me, only a 2 player game, we don't find the need to ban characters. The power differences that are apparent just engender too much friction between wifey and me, to ever consider doing a major thumping of each other. We have played games, with The City, where one of us was the Alchemist.

 

We just tried to behave, basically.  You can win this game without crapping all over it - or being crapped on.



#24 chemical22

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:22 AM

Our group each draws a character and then can choose to discard it for another draw.  The 2nd draw must be kept.

 

We give the option of the redraw so that more characters can see play, but have it random so there is no temptation to pick a "powerful" character for the sake of a win.

 

We have to have a 2nd draw caveat because we only play about once a month or less, and there is nothing worse than drawing the same characters in a row when you don't play a lot.

 

I'm not a fan of the alchemist or the cultist, but we do not ban any characters.  It's just good luck if someone draws a more powerful one.


Edited by chemical22, 15 May 2014 - 09:28 AM.


#25 Nioreh

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:22 PM

Our group each draws a character and then can choose to discard it for another draw.  The 2nd draw must be kept.

...

 

Hm, we drew characters like this a few times a long time ago. I thought it was a great way but I can't really recollect why we stopped.

Maybe we'll go back to it. 

I used to put used characters aside but when we started taking just one the need for it faded, statistically they will all be played sooner or later anyways.
If we're reintroducing the "draw a second hidden character which you must play" the used-characters pile will probably come back as well. 


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#26 Thels

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:34 PM

The only restrication we have from that is that we only draw dragon characters when the dragon expansion is played, as they tend to be more powerful than the others (I know it's not true for all of them but we handle them as a group).

 

That's kind of odd, as most of the characters are weaker when not used in combination with the Dragon expansion. Abilities that are directly related to dragons or breath attacks see much less light of day when not used in combination with the Dragon expansion.


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#27 Nioreh

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:44 PM

...

And the only other character, we've had any real problem with is the Ogre Chieftain. Pounding your way through the dungeon, make some friends, whack LOD, go to crown and WTFPWN Dragon King. But that has many a luck factor to it, so It can be just as much fail as success.

...

This is our only house-rule. LOD won't take you all the way to CoC, PoP is the max roll.

We used it more and more and pretty soon talismans we're something kinda long forgotten and the game lost a portion of it's charm.

 

 

On a side not we have a lot of characters that have never been played and probably never will be played because they are pretty lame.

Don't be that way! Each game is unique and has it own special *story*. Even so-called lame characters pull it off if they get the right spells, objects, followers, etc.

 

 

Everyone's allowed to play as they wish but I really agree with this. 

 

Who wants to draw the Sprite?  Or the Spy?  Or the Grave Robber?    lol

...

 

I'd gladly play all of those, especially Sprite :) 2'nd best spellcaster in the game imo (after the Warlock).

 

 

We don't remove any characters; we deal a single character randomly to each player who's stuck with what they drew. :P

 

This is exactly it.  You get what you get.  Adds to the challenge, sometimes creates underdogs, and makes sure all characters can be in play!

 

I can see how this would not be for everyone, but we enjoy it!

 

 

 

We don't remove any characters; we deal a single character randomly to each player who's stuck with what they drew. :P

 

+1. Single random, "you drew it, you play it." Although characters are used in rotation, so each character that gets used is left in the box and isn't available to be drawn until all the characters have seen action. Gotta make sure Priest sees action, nobody would pick him.

 

@ JediKnightAmoeba: Not a huge fan of Sprite, but all three you listed, I'd rather draw them than at least half a dozen other characters, suck-list led by the Priest of course.

 

 

+1
As I wrote in the beginning this is how we play it and even though we might do a some games according to my previous post (depends on who's in, I play with we're 6-7 ppl who come together for 3-4 player games) this is the draw method I enjoy the most :)

 

 

There are very few characters I do not like to play: Dread Knight and Elf. I think their design forces them into static and predictable strategies. The Elf may get some more options with the Woodland though, as there MUST be some extra Woods spaces inside.

Can't say I have much against the Dread Knight but I don't really like him either.
The elf on the other hand is my absolute least favorite character and I've thought the exact same about the woodlands.. there better be a handful of Woods in there :D


Edited by Nioreh, 15 May 2014 - 03:45 PM.


#28 The_Warlock

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 12:57 AM

 

The only restrication we have from that is that we only draw dragon characters when the dragon expansion is played, as they tend to be more powerful than the others (I know it's not true for all of them but we handle them as a group).

 

That's kind of odd, as most of the characters are weaker when not used in combination with the Dragon expansion. Abilities that are directly related to dragons or breath attacks see much less light of day when not used in combination with the Dragon expansion.

 

 

The Minotaur and Conjurer are standard characters and I cannot see why you cannot mix them freely with the others. They're powerful, but that has nothing to do with Dragons or scales.

 

The Dragon Hunter and Fire Wizard are exceedingly powerful when there are many Dragons and scales around, but are quite solid in any game of Talisman. Deathblow works in every battle and so does the pyroblast. Fire Wizard has an in-built Spellbook as well.

 

Dragon Rider and Dragon Priestess, as I've already said, have mostly abilities that pivot on Dragons. With less than 20 Dragons dispersed in a huge Adventure deck and in other Region decks, your chances to encounter them and put the abilities to good use are tiny. The Priestess can focus on the Temple, but without many Cultists to get as free bonuses (they're more common in the Dragon decks) she can only hope to get as many Followers as possible. The Dragon Rider, on the other hand, is a character that has a permanent Holy Lance that must look for a Dragon to get a real chance. Otherwise, she's a good-aligned Str 3 Cft 4 character with 3 fate and no abilities.

 


There are very few characters I do not like to play: Dread Knight and Elf. I think their design forces them into static and predictable strategies. The Elf may get some more options with the Woodland though, as there MUST be some extra Woods spaces inside.

Can't say I have much against the Dread Knight but I don't really like him either.
The elf on the other hand is my absolute least favorite character and I've thought the exact same about the woodlands.. there better be a handful of Woods in there :D

 

The Dread Knight's problem is the following: he has a Warhorse he can lose pretty easily, he has a second ability which works only if he's strong, if he kills Enemies and if he gains some Craft as well (or he won't be able to gain more Spells), and has only 1 fate.

 

I can't understand why the designer thought he would need only 1 fate. He should have at least 2. He needs fate not only to be safe from the occasional Talismonger, Luck Fairy or similar, but also to save himself for the not-so-powerful Craft Enemy who will make him lose the Warhorse. Usually he ends up losing the Warhorse, then spends a lot of time travelling back to the Graveyard to regain both the Warhorse and fate. This procedure consumes a lot of time and it's very predictable. In my last game with Dread Knight my opponent waited until I landed on the Graveyard to cast Mesmerism on me and steal the Warhorse again. If you give up the Warhorse and stop trying to reach the Graveyard, you'll be a Str 2 / Cft 3 character with 1 fate and the only ability to gain 1 Spell if you're so lucky to defeat an Enemy. I can't see any meaningful strategy to get out of that bad situation, you can just keep drawing and see if the game kills you or makes you survive.

 

The Elf was ok with the base game, where he had good chances to draw a Magic Stream or Fountain of Wisdom, but now there are so many negative/useless Strangers and Places that can clog the Woods in the Outer Region; if that happens, your Elf must get out and he's a character without abilities. The ability to Evade in the Woods keeps you safe from hostile characters, but if you draw a powerful Enemy then the Woods space becomes taboo until you're ready to face it or someone else does it for you. If you draw an Object you can't carry or take, you must leave it on the Woods and it shuts down the space as well; other characters can even do this on purpose. In the Woods you always draw 1 card only, so you're not able to push your luck like you do on a Ruins/Hidden Valley or in the Dungeon or Highland. In my opinion, this strategy is very predictable and very slow, so you will be forced to abandon it sooner or later. At least the Elf has solid stats and fate, as opposed to the Dread Knight.

 

If the Woodland has many Woods spaces, he can find a new place to exploit his ability. I don't think Terrain Cards could increase the opportunities for the Elf: only Verdant Growth and Seeds of Paradise place a Woods Terrain Card; Terramorph is random and thus not reliable.



#29 Bolithio

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:40 PM

While some characters appear to be stronger than others, I firmly believe you can win with any character. I think the monk is the most 'boring' character, especially if your playing with the city. We used to think the elf or the minstrel were under powered, but if you play them right, they are actually better than you might think.



#30 Nioreh

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:58 PM

Absolutely. Four hours ago I just won with the Elf (3 player game, Highlads, City and all small boxes in play). As someone wrote earlier the outcome is more about what happens later on but I just don't appreciate winning with very powerful characters. It just raises the question did I win with an op character or did I win because I played good? 

Ironically enough (considering I've written here) at the beginning of this very game I asked to redraw my character (they got Warrior and Amazon) when I got the Prophetess. The very character I used to put aside but changed my mind about in the beginning of this thread and instead I got the Elf which I think is the most boring one.



#31 Granville

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 06:51 PM

A little off topic but are people really having games where the Prophetess wrecks so much of the fun?

 

I've played the character to the best of my ability a few times and i'm very competitive (in a good way, no poor sport.)

 

I just don't find the character to be so much of a game-runnier.

 

No comparison to the Alchemist (Near-impossible to kill) and the fire wizard who tends to blow everybody up faster than anyone else can.



#32 Nioreh

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 06:54 PM

I threw her out before the were any expansions. Back then she was way beyond every other character imo and I just hadn't thought about her up til now. (That's why she's back in.)



#33 DomaGB

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:05 PM

My group refuses to play the monk with the new rules. But in my home we do. Either way, its one of my favorite characters.


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#34 Nioreh

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:07 PM

What? What's wrong with the monk?

I like him too :)
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#35 Uvatha

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:24 PM

We draw one character for each player in game (eg six players playing you draw six to choose out of) I've made a special "Start of the Game" deck that makes what sets you play with at start of game random so each game you can play with all - none - or some of the sets. Mind you you need most to all of the sets to use well. Now I need to sneek in the "woodlands set" to the deck when it comes out.

 

Anyways you draw as many cards from that deck as players playing so it works well with character selection. Only thing I havent worked out yet is if you should know what sets are "in game" after character selection or before?

 

I dont see a purpose to ban any character from the deck for selection, no matter how you generate characters everyone is on a even playing field at start of game. Players (are incouraged) to gang up on characters who are a threat to winning early so picking a "powerful" character is sometimes not such a good idea when playing against experienced or clever players :).



#36 Kharavex

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 01:56 PM

Using the 2nd Edition set we always drew two characters and combined the abilities and stats. We had a blast. Games were shorter and definitely humorous.
Long live the Zulu/Warrior of Chaos!

Sadly, my second edition stuff suffered flood damage and has been retired so I have purchased the 4th edition using a birthday discount at my local game store. All the expansions as well.

Some Saturday in June a new era will begin.
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#37 Uvatha

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:12 PM

Using the 2nd Edition set we always drew two characters and combined the abilities and stats. We had a blast. Games were shorter and definitely humorous.
Long live the Zulu/Warrior of Chaos!

Sadly, my second edition stuff suffered flood damage and has been retired so I have purchased the 4th edition using a birthday discount at my local game store. All the expansions as well.

Some Saturday in June a new era will begin.

How interesting. So your saying just their special abilities are combined thus the two characters become one. there are some rule issues for sure. Also what alignment will you be, unless you draw 2 characters of the same alignment? might be worth a "home brew" revealed ending :).

 

Challenge for all the creative souls here I bet :).



#38 Nemomon

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 02:04 PM

Using the 2nd Edition set we always drew two characters and combined the abilities and stats. We had a blast. Games were shorter and definitely humorous.
Long live the Zulu/Warrior of Chaos!

Sadly, my second edition stuff suffered flood damage and has been retired so I have purchased the 4th edition using a birthday discount at my local game store. All the expansions as well.

Some Saturday in June a new era will begin.

How interesting. So your saying just their special abilities are combined thus the two characters become one. there are some rule issues for sure. Also what alignment will you be, unless you draw 2 characters of the same alignment? might be worth a "home brew" revealed ending :).
 
Challenge for all the creative souls here I bet :).

 
I play the two characters mode (in a version called "Small MiM") as well. I already described our rules there: http://www.talismani.../talisman_x.htm if You're interested (uder: "Henchmen").
Enter the Talisman Island!

#39 Artaterxes

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 02:43 PM

Why is having Strength 1 so bad for the Sprite? The Troll has a Craft 1 and you don't see anyone complaining about him...



#40 Nioreh

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 05:02 PM

Using the 2nd Edition set we always drew two characters and combined the abilities and stats. We had a blast. Games were shorter and definitely humorous.
Long live the Zulu/Warrior of Chaos!
...

 

Very creative and it sounds like great fun. Especially if you are looking for a quicker game. Possibly while under the influence of alcohol.

I'll definitely try to make this happen around here at some point  :)


Edited by Nioreh, 27 May 2014 - 05:02 PM.





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