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Question about multiple uses of Bronn (Core)


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#1 mindfever065

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:44 PM

Can Bronn's ability be used to save multiple characters at the same time? For example, I was playing against friend the other day. During a military challenge I had a claim of three. My friend used Bronn to "protect" 3 characters (using 3 different actions and paying 6 gold total). My friend argued that since death from claim happens at the same time, all three characters were save with Bronn only needing to stand once. Is that correct?

This is the card in question.

http://www.cardgamed...eckbuilder.html

#2 ktom

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 01:13 PM

My friend argued that since death from claim happens at the same time, all three characters were save with Bronn only needing to stand once. Is that correct?

 

I'm trying to find a polite way of saying, "not remotely."

 

Even though the game is trying to kill the 3 characters all at the same time with a single effect, each "stand Bronn instead of killing that character" effect is a separate effect. Since Bronn can only stand once in that time frame, when all 3 effects try to stand him "instead" simultaneously, one will be successful and the other two will fail. The two that fail to stand him will therefore fail to replace the kill with the stand.

 

Said another way, activating Bronn 3 times creates 3 separate effects. Your friend tried to combine the 3 separate "stand Bronn 1 time instead of killing 1 character" effects into a single "stand Bronn 1 time instead of killing 3 characters" effect. The game doesn't allow you to combine separate effects like that. The correct combined result of those three separate effects would be "stand Bronn 3 times instead of killing 3 characters." That, clearly, cannot happen.

 

When separate effects should resolve at the same time, but can't (because the success of one would result in the failure of the other), the First Player gets to decide the order in which those separate effects resolve. So in your "Claim 3" situation above, the First Player would decide which "stand Bronn instead of killing 1 character" effect was successful - and which 2 were failures, resulting in the death of those characters. 


Edited by ktom, 13 May 2014 - 01:15 PM.


#3 HastAttack

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 06:10 AM

Interesting last point re the first player deciding which character is saved

 

If I was gold rich, I could see myself paying 6 gold and nominating 3 characters who could be saved - but I would have been under the illusion that when I stood Bronn, I would decide which character I was saving

 

What about Strong Belwas - his text is "to save another unique targ character from being killed or discarded" ... it does not say that the controlled gets to choose which character

 

So if 3 unique targ characters are due to die, who would choose which character gets saved?



#4 Pandademic

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 06:38 AM

Interesting last point re the first player deciding which character is saved

 

If I was gold rich, I could see myself paying 6 gold and nominating 3 characters who could be saved - but I would have been under the illusion that when I stood Bronn, I would decide which character I was saving

 

What about Strong Belwas - his text is "to save another unique targ character from being killed or discarded" ... it does not say that the controlled gets to choose which character

 

So if 3 unique targ characters are due to die, who would choose which character gets saved?

You would, because you're the one triggering Strong Belwas's save response. The reason Bronn is different is that his ability is creating a lasting effect, which resolves passively. Once you've triggered it, you don't get a choice whether to stand Bronn if that character is killed. Strong Belwas's ability, like most saves, is (optionally) triggered in direct response to a character being killed.


Edited by Pandademic, 14 May 2014 - 06:39 AM.


#5 Slothgodfather

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:48 AM

The first player only gets to decide because there are multiple "saves" trying to stand Bronn, and only 1 can actually happen.   So if you spent enough gold to protect 3 people, but then all three died during the same phase - say your opponent flips into Valar during the Challenges phase somehow.    Bronn's ability is a passive and all passives happen at the same time, unless they conflict.  In this case, they do, since 3 effects are trying to stand Bronn at the same time.   So the FP decides which order to resolve these conflicting passives in.   The first one chosen is the one that stands Bronn, with that chosen character being saved.  The other two can't successfully resolve now, since Bronn is already standing - so they essentially fizzle out.


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