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A Real Answer for the Broken Smugglers?


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#21 Buhallin

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 04:27 PM

 

So if this deck is beatable why is everyone running it. I've found free-holders solo smugglers to be a challenge but far from un-beatable, just like Sith control was. If people look outside the tiny scope of DS cards they are used to using there's a lot of fun options to splash that help against these solo smuggler decks immensely. Until the meta (as a whole in the US) starts to adapt these counters people will continue to run smugglers shenanigans.

 

"if this deck is beatable why is everyone running it" assumes that the only dominant option would be a truly unbeatable deck.  But that's not the case.  Smugglers right now are head and shoulders above anything else the light side has to offer.  It is beatable, but it's less beatable than anything else out there.



#22 Goknights12

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:55 AM

There are two ways of looking at this, that the new smugglers Meta has made the game one dimensional by forcing (in a sense) players to use it, or that it has caused an imbalance of the game. Going to any regional the last thing I would play is the new smugglers set. Why? Because everyone is going to try and beat it. Why not throw sleuths at them when they expect it least, or some other faction and blow them out of the water because they decided to defend against what everyone else was running. The reason it is unbalanced (and really one dimensional at the same time) is that in order to win a game against Meta, you must run the perfect DS deck, but that leaves you wide open to anything else anyone runs. Obviously in a perfect world anything you play could compete against anything they play, but Star Wars has gone another direction. In order to play against what they are maybe playing, you must build a deck perfectly for that build, which pretty much leaves a wide open door for anything else to ruin your day. Perfectly imbalanced. I hope the next packs coming out give the ability to defend and give a chance to win against anything, rather than make you focus on one build.



#23 KennedyHawk

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:58 AM

 The reason it is unbalanced (and really one dimensional at the same time) is that in order to win a game against Meta, you must run the perfect DS deck, but that leaves you wide open to anything else anyone runs.

 

But you can run a deck that hinder's solo smugglers and can still be played competitively against other deck-types. It may not be an "strong win" like sith control but to assume that to beat smugglers you can't beat anything else is a silly idea.


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#24 Toqtamish

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:07 AM

We're reaching or have already reached the point where no one deck will beat every single other deck. Which is the way it should be. 


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#25 Goknights12

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:08 AM

 

 The reason it is unbalanced (and really one dimensional at the same time) is that in order to win a game against Meta, you must run the perfect DS deck, but that leaves you wide open to anything else anyone runs.

 

But you can run a deck that hinder's solo smugglers and can still be played competitively against other deck-types. It may not be an "strong win" like sith control but to assume that to beat smugglers you can't beat anything else is a silly idea.

 

I think the biggest issue is Sleuths and Meta... A deck that plays against Meta probably isn't strong against Sleuths and Vice Versa. Smugglers have the two best ways to win, and to build against one, sets you up to lose to the other, unless Scum picks up the pace. I think there are ways to beat it, but overall I think maybe people complained about the LS not being able to win like the DS could. They made cards that have now shifted it to the LS is much stronger IMHO, and really makes you choose between two builds. Sleuths or Meta. Choose your game dominating build.

 

Again, my hope is that in the next force packs that changes, but I think the game relies too much on people wanting to change rather than the game allowing the change to happen.



#26 Goknights12

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:19 AM

Also, really enjoying this thread. I think there are a lot of good views and different points being added.


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#27 KennedyHawk

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:19 AM

 

I think the biggest issue is Sleuths and Meta... A deck that plays against Meta probably isn't strong against Sleuths and Vice Versa. Smugglers have the two best ways to win, and to build against one, sets you up to lose to the other, unless Scum picks up the pace. I think there are ways to beat it, but overall I think maybe people complained about the LS not being able to win like the DS could. They made cards that have now shifted it to the LS is much stronger IMHO, and really makes you choose between two builds. Sleuths or Meta. Choose your game dominating build.


 

 

Again, my hope is that in the next force packs that changes, but I think the game relies too much on people wanting to change rather than the game allowing the change to happen.

 

 

I think this is close minded. Most decks I've seen that handle free-holders are actually pretty proficient against sleuths. They do have a weakness against mono jedi but they aren't unplayable against them. I think people are reading far too much into the recent regional results as to what can handle mono-smugglers. Why does scum have to pick up the pace to be able to handle both. There are viable navy and sith pods that help counter all the shenanigans as well.


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#28 Toqtamish

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:30 AM

Scum is a lot better than most people give them credit for. The problem is Sith became ingrained so quickly in everyone's minds as the end all and be all to the DS, right back to the core set only days, that it hampered creativity. 


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#29 KennedyHawk

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:38 AM

Scum is a lot better than most people give them credit for. The problem is Sith became ingrained so quickly in everyone's minds as the end all and be all to the DS, right back to the core set only days, that it hampered creativity. 

 

Yup. And in Navy/Sith people need to look at the lesser used pods.

 

Serve the Emperor gives you two low cost units with a bonus ability. You can use them to empty your hand, or if playing against sleuths they can kill a sleuth with a heat of battle and help you pump up your hand for edge battles. It comes with a 3 icon edge card if you hold something back and a great event for shutting down a free-holder.

 

Lord Vader's command is a similar navy set. Two low cost units for dumping your hand, a bonus ability that can turn off Raise the stakes and some other powerful objectives. They work great against False report as well. The set itself comes with a counter to swindle/let the wookie win/sometimes holding all the cards, and a great edge card. Yeah you have the terrible officer but he's great for emptying your hand when you have the resources and draw him. He helps you chain your hand size to a low number.

 

Both of these sets are not terrible against other decks either. Those probe droids are great free damage in a Navy agro deck. And the weenies help sith control with card advantage versus rebel ships or Jedi.


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#30 Toqtamish

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:43 AM

Similar to those sets the under used a Dark Time for the Rebellion and the MTV-7's in it helped my Navy deck out in beating off the Sleuth Scout decks at Halifax Store championships. 


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#31 Hida77

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:54 AM

It seems to me that there is a simple solution:

 

Restricted list.

Objectives on the list are:

 

Against All Odds

False Report

 

Neither set is broken by themselves, but in combination (mostly because of Holding all the Cards/Freeholder interaction) they are defining the environment in a negative way.

 

You could make an argument that some combination of Fall/Counsel/Web should also be on the list to break up the Sith shenanigans a bit.  I would say Fall/Counsel mostly since I think that least causes the least impact and forces an interesting choice, but I could also see leaving all three off the list.

 

I agree with what many have said and that that neither deck (Sith or Smuggler) are broken, but the new pods are definately more powerful in combination than many of the alternatives, and I do think that it is negatively impacting the environment and people's perception of the game on the whole..


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#32 Toqtamish

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:57 AM

I don't agree we need a restricted list. If they didn't restrict Sith last year I see no reason to restrict Smugglers this year. Certainly not with only 2 packs out of 6 out now. 


Edited by Toqtamish, 15 May 2014 - 08:57 AM.

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#33 JMCB

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:33 AM

We're reaching or have already reached the point where no one deck will beat every single other deck. Which is the way it should be. 

 

This. This is the idea of a balanced LCG/TCG. What people don't realize is that in order to make things interesting for a card game, not everything can always be 50/50. 


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#34 Goknights12

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:39 PM

 

We're reaching or have already reached the point where no one deck will beat every single other deck. Which is the way it should be. 

 

This. This is the idea of a balanced LCG/TCG. What people don't realize is that in order to make things interesting for a card game, not everything can always be 50/50. 

 

The issue is not a perfect 50/50, I think most people understand that, but new Smuggler Meta is more like 80/20.



#35 divinityofnumber

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 01:20 PM

Talking about a restricted list for SW at this point is just ridiculous, in my opinion. 


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#36 Goknights12

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 01:29 PM

Talking about a restricted list for SW at this point is just ridiculous, in my opinion. 

Agreed. I don't think it needs to be banned. I guess I would just like to know why they released these cards back-to-back so early in the force cycle, and why continue to beef up Smugglers and not spread the love and level up each affiliation gradually rather than make one much more powerful than the other two.


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#37 KennedyHawk

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 01:32 PM

Maybe people are just enamored and overlooking pods like Crix :P


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#38 GroggyGolem

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 01:39 PM

 

 

Talking about a restricted list for SW at this point is just ridiculous, in my opinion. 

Agreed. I don't think it needs to be banned. I guess I would just like to know why they released these cards back-to-back so early in the force cycle, and why continue to beef up Smugglers and not spread the love and level up each affiliation gradually rather than make one much more powerful than the other two.

 

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#39 JMCB

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:58 PM

 

 

We're reaching or have already reached the point where no one deck will beat every single other deck. Which is the way it should be. 

 

This. This is the idea of a balanced LCG/TCG. What people don't realize is that in order to make things interesting for a card game, not everything can always be 50/50. 

 

The issue is not a perfect 50/50, I think most people understand that, but new Smuggler Meta is more like 80/20.

 

Quit playing the same old decks, and you'll see it can be 60/40 in your favor against Smugglers in certain matchups.


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#40 Rogue 4

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:39 PM

Crix pod x2
Rebel fleet x2
Hit and run
Aldaraans promise
Rogue 3 pod x2
Red 5 pod x2

Try that. Very fast and soon to be even more effective

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