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7th Ed. WH40K


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#141 ak-73

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:53 AM

...it sounds like the Tau get entirely screwed by this new system since they have neither psykers or Adamantium Will. First they nerf our Rail Guns and now there is turn in which we can only get owned, Fu'llasso! <_<

 

Weak Xenos! Can't bear their fate with confident stoicism. That way you will never rule the galaxy. ;) :lol:

 

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#142 AtoMaki

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 04:49 AM

...it sounds like the Tau get entirely screwed by this new system since they have neither psykers or Adamantium Will. First they nerf our Rail Guns and now there is turn in which we can only get owned, Fu'llasso! <_<

 

Between the Missilesides, Riptides and Fire Warrior Castles, I can't exactly understand the woes of the Tau players  :rolleyes: .



#143 Suijin

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:05 PM

Adamantium Will does next to nothing for an army as the best Psyker powers are the ones that aren't cast on the enemy. You can't use any modifiers to making DtW rolls vs blessings or conjurations.



#144 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 03:56 AM

The aggression seems to lie in risking perils. Or not. That's also what keeps psyker-heavy armies from nilly-willy throwing around warp charges to overcome Adamantium Will, if I understand it right.

 

Alex

 

Exactly so. Was at WHW this weekend for an event and make the following comments on psychic powers:

 

  • My tyranids can muster 5 mastery levels across the army, so I get D6+5 warp charge. High but not off the charts, plus I only get the tyranid powers, not the new rulebook lores (no tyranids summoning daemons, which is good).
  • If I rolled well on the warp charge (both players get the same d6 value), I would usually get 2-3 powers off, but would expect the enemy to stop one about half the time up to about 3/4 of the time, depending on whether they had a psyker on the board, their mastery level and adamantium bloody will, which is more annoying than it sounds on paper when many of your good abilities are witchfires and maledictions.
  • Note that with Ld10 psykers, previously I would have been surprised if I didn't get 4-5 powers a turn cast successfully.
  • There's been a general balancing of abilitiy costs. Those powers that 'everybody used' have generally become warp charge 2+, such as Prescience, meaning you need to throw 5+ dice at them to feel reasonably confident. Yes, 4 should be enough, but if you're throwing 4 you're generally throwing the majority of your dice, so might as well put in an extra one or two to be sure. To summarise - Unless you're laden with mastery levels, casting prescience more than twice is massively unlikely, whereas before every horror unit (for example) would have a herald twin-linking the squad's shots almost as an afterthought.
  • The Worst Case Scenario that I faced was a list with 4 mastery 3 psykers (daemons with daemon princes) getting D6+12 warp charge, and even that wasn't two bad. I had to contend with two 'free' units of daemons appearing during the game, one of which didn't make it to their first turn after appearing (deep striking into a nice bundle, plus being unable to run, plus warp blast equals toasty plaguebearers).
  • Yes, stopping a blessing isn't easy. But it was impossible before, so surely that's an improvement?
  • Leadership is no longer the defining factor in ability. Therefore, Ld9 and Ld8 psykers (e.g. warlocks) are actually useful. Equally, warlocks and wyrdvane psykers are also useful if not using their powers as they still provide you with extra power dice you can fling at the powers of more important and competent psykers elsewhere. My tervigons mostly sat there in the psychic phase humming Bay City Rollers tunes whilst the one guy with Warp Blast lanced things (or whatever I needed at the time)
  • Remember that the rulebook powers are (mostly) unchanged. With a handful of exceptions, there are few 'Dwellers Below' equivalents that can really swing a battle. Yes, I wiped a squad out with Psychic Scream at one point, but it was a five-man space marine unit outside cover. That's not really that hard and it involved a flukey roll.
  • Even summoning a greater daemon sounds good in theory, but (a) the odds of getting the power is limited unless you have many, many psykers, (b) the odds of screwing up casting it are fairly high, © it kills the psyker which usually means a kill point and possibly warlord kill to boot.
  • Perils of the warp is very, very easy with daemonology powers. The perils of the warp is usually an automatic wound but can be much, much worse and can be much, much better. I had the two extremes for the twice I rolled perils: one caused a wound but would have slain an unwounded 6-wound tervigon outright had I failed the leadership check, the other didn't wound me and - at least for the turn - gave the tervigon sufficient bonuses that it would have had a decent chance of slapping a daemon prince upside the head.
  • Yes, the Tau, Necrons and Dark Eldar do nothing in the psychic phase but defend themselves. But, let's be fair, they could do nothing psychic-ly before, either. All they've done is move all the power casting to a single point in the turn and call it a phase.
  • The psychic phase being when it is has certain game effects. For example, 'dominion' extends a sypnapse creature's synapse range. You can't cast it before making instinctive behaviour or rally tests now but you'll see who failed before deciding which psyker needs to switch on his long-ranged antennae. Equally, when facing Imperial Knights, they don't get to shift their ion shields around until the start of the shooting phase - so a witchfire can catch them before they can react and interpose their invulnerable save. You get to move your psyker before casting what used to be 'start of turn' powers, potentially increasing their effective reach. Finally, you have to allocate your melee-boosting powers before you get to see the results of your shooting, which may lead to you wasting powers on people who never make it into an assault.

Edited by Magnus Grendel, 23 June 2014 - 03:57 AM.

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#145 AtoMaki

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:07 AM

 

  • Leadership is no longer the defining factor in ability.

 

We lost our last Tyranid player because of this change. He is now playing an Abomination (untouchable/pariah tier anti-psyker) named 'Shadow' in one of our RPG groups to went off his rage  :D


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#146 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:36 AM

 

 

We lost our last Tyranid player because of this change. He is now playing an Abomination (untouchable/pariah tier anti-psyker) named 'Shadow' in one of our RPG groups to went off his rage  :D

 

 

 

The Shadow In The Warp still helps.

 

It doesn't prevent psychic powers being cast, but it does mean that if someone does trigger perils of the warp (and bear in mind that's generally going to happen more, because firstly people are flinging 3-6 dice in blobs rather making 2D6 tests and secondly daemonology powers trigger perils far, far more often), then because many of the results require leadership tests, he's going to be taking the worse results more often and the beneficial results far less.

 

Plus, tyranids tend to do better than most for psychic power available to shut things down. Tervigons generate warp charge as a troops choice, Zoanthropes are cheap and mastery level 2, and hive tyrants push out two warp charge but are far more dangerous than most other psykers (daemon princes/greater deamons aside).


Edited by Magnus Grendel, 23 June 2014 - 06:39 AM.


#147 AtoMaki

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 07:12 AM

 

 

 

We lost our last Tyranid player because of this change. He is now playing an Abomination (untouchable/pariah tier anti-psyker) named 'Shadow' in one of our RPG groups to went off his rage  :D

 

 

The Shadow In The Warp still helps.

 

Nah, it is a pile of crap. You have a very small window of opportunity to actually use it because everyone and their kittens will try to kill the synapse/SitW creature to cripple your army and that 12" range is a big favor to the enemy (as most anti-MC weapons are best against targets within 12"). So far, at least you could drop the bomb and screw up important psychic castings - now it only counts if your enemy was nice enough to get Perils and even then, only two results out of the six are really bad the others are pretty 'meh'. 



#148 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:16 AM

True, but a lot of psychic powers are also that short a range, and you can seek to screw up "important" powers too.

 

The key thing is that you can only really afford to oppose one or two powers unless you massively outclass someone psychically. But knowing that you can drop all your dice on a key attempt forces them to throw a massive chunk of power to activate it.

 

Throwing 6 dice doesn't seem that unusual and that gives you a 1-in-4 chance of perils of the warp.

 

I'm not saying it's not taken a big hit, but it is still useful. A more important effect than the really bad ones was stopping a librarian pulling off the 3++ save/Fleshbane ability after rolling a '6' when empowering his force weapon, which would have been pretty terminal for the tervigon in question.






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