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Bad Motivator talent


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#1 Kalrunoor

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:03 PM

Talent states that I can make a hard mechanics check to make a device fail. Can i use this to break an NPC droid? What about a PC droid?
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#2 2P51

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:05 PM

If the GM allows it, which it also says.


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#3 Kalrunoor

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:24 PM

How would you rule it if a Pc wanted to use this against another PC?
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#4 awayputurwpn

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:28 PM

How would you rule it if a Pc wanted to use this against another PC?

A Droid PC is not a "device." It's a character. IMO, this kind of thing is definitely going against the intent of the talent. However, some droids could certainly be considered "devices" or "equipment." If the droid is attacking the PCs or otherwise directly engaging them, I'd say no to the use of this talent on that droid. But if it's a background droid, or if someone else is using the droid to do something, then totally I would allow it. 

 

"Uncle Owen, this R2 unit has a bad motivator!" 


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#5 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:32 PM

Talent states that I can make a hard mechanics check to make a device fail. Can i use this to break an NPC droid? What about a PC droid?

Ultimately depends on if the GM allows a droid (NPC or PC) to be deemed a device.

 

Personally, I might allow it for an NPC droid, but I sure as hell wouldn't allow it be uses on a PC droid.


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#6 PatientWolf

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:43 PM

As others have stated it depends on the droid. If it is a PC droid I would not allow it. An independent PC droid doing something critical I would not allow it.  An NPC droid that is just being used for something I would allow. For example, if the PCs are being chased by an Y-wing that is using a R2 unit for a navicomp I would certainly allow this talent to cause the R2 unit to fail (hopefully actually due to a bad motivator lol)


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#7 2P51

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:47 PM

A better question would be why is a PC using it on a PC?


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#8 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:52 PM

A better question would be why is a PC using it on a PC?

To be a jerk to a fellow PC with the excuse "because I can!"

 

Sadly, that type of behavior tends to crop up far more than most of us are comfortable with.  Especially if the players are adolescent boys with entitlement issues.


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#9 awayputurwpn

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:54 PM

 

A better question would be why is a PC using it on a PC?

To be a jerk to a fellow PC with the excuse "because I can!"

 

Sadly, that type of behavior tends to crop up far more than most of us are comfortable with.  Especially if the players are adolescent boys with entitlement issues.

 

Or 20-something boys with bad roleplaying habits 


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#10 2P51

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:55 PM

I was hoping for "because the dread Dr. Sticky Fingers used his droid control ray on Bob's character so we were trying to disable him".


Edited by 2P51, 09 May 2014 - 02:56 PM.

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#11 awayputurwpn

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 03:28 PM

I was hoping for "because the dread Dr. Sticky Fingers used his droid control ray on Bob's character so we were trying to disable him".

Could just use Bad Motivator on Dr. Sticky Fingers' control ray... :)


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#12 Kshatriya

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 04:14 PM

To me this Talent is dangerously vague, because the word "device" is never defined as a term of art. The GM approval helps, but also is not unlikely to start an argument.


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#13 awayputurwpn

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 05:53 PM

To me this Talent is dangerously vague, because the word "device" is never defined as a term of art. The GM approval helps, but also is not unlikely to start an argument.

This is why I start each session with a reminder to my players, something to the tune of, "I am the gamemaster, and throughout the game I'm going to have to rule things on the fly so as to keep the game moving. Even if you think you know better, please just go with it, because my aim is that we all have fun tonight." And I get my players to agree. 

 

If there is an argument that arises, I just remind people of the agreement we made at the start of the session and ask them to honor it. 


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#14 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:04 PM

To me this Talent is dangerously vague, because the word "device" is never defined as a term of art. The GM approval helps, but also is not unlikely to start an argument.


Wwll... Since the term comes from a malfunctioning droid in A New Hope it would be weird if it would not fall into that catagory.
Pc on pc use I would allow and then tell the player that did it that it has been fun playing with him/her while it lasted but he /she is no longer welcome at our table.

#15 2P51

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:09 PM

It's funny how bad my motivator is Monday mornings............


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#16 HappyDaze

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:17 PM

We've house ruled that this talent can only be used out to Engaged range (personal scale) and that the character using it must actually spend the action closely examining and or actively tampering with the system it's used upon. This prevents things like disabling the Death Stsr tractor beam or a pursuing ship's ion drives from the outside.
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#17 Kshatriya

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:58 PM

This prevents things like disabling the Death Stsr tractor beam or a pursuing ship's ion drives from the outside.

That scale of thing was my concern, but...

 

We've house ruled that this talent can only be used out to Engaged range (personal scale) and that the character using it must actually spend the action closely examining and or actively tampering with the system it's used upon.

This is quite a substantial nerf.



#18 2P51

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:05 PM

The range restriction is pretty reasonable, maybe short is ok too.  I don't think it requires extensive examination though, since the talent implies the Mechanic notices the flaw, seems like the examination is reflected in the hard difficulty.


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#19 Vonpenguin

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:24 PM

Personally I wouldn't allow it on PCs without the targeted player's permission, I and a lot of the guys I game with don't mind these if they make sense and aren't just used as a way to grief people. Same for npc Droids that are meant to be "PC level" in terms of what they can do and how much of a character they are. Others I would allow with varying setback and upgraded difficulties.

 

Something plot relevant like the deathstar's tractor beam would be a flat "no". GM fiat. Do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars. I would make that clear to the guy taking the talent before they spent the XP though.



#20 ianinak

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:54 PM

I'd tend to say that it causes one part of the droid to fail.  (One leg, one arm, one built in weapon or system, heuristic processor, etc.)  In this way, I'd treat it like a cybernetic part on an organic being.  You want the talent to have a use, but not make it game breaking.

 

I also agree with the others that pvp stuff is a no-no at my table.  I make it very clear at the start of the campaign and remind players if things get terse between them.  They need to settle their differences in such a way as they can still function as a group and not a bunch of individuals.


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