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Valar Morghulis


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#1 Jivewookiee

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:03 AM

Hi all,

 

I asked this question some years back and feel the answers i got didn't fully satisfy me.

 

I love this game and love the setting. I bought a fair bit before it went LCG and still have my old stuff lying around as well as the LCG stuff. But the one issue I have with this game is,

 

Valar Morghulis (Or Wildfire Assault)

 

If the entire group is running one of the above cards then I feel there is too much board wipe, especially for my favorite House, Baratheon. Who rely on characters to accumulate power tokens.

 

But, if you don't run these Plots you crowd the table and then Military Challenges become obsolete. If i lose a Military Challenge I have to pick a character or two to die. Not a big issue if i have ten characters.

 

It gets worse and worse on both fronts the more players you add. And Melee is my preferred game type.

 

What is the common approach to this (as I perceive it) problem.

 

Thanks for your time,

Jivewookiee

 



#2 ktom

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:49 AM

I think most people just accept it as the way the game is played and deal with it in a number of ways, including:

  1. Load up on character saves or "gains CBK" effects, at least for the key characters.
  2. Fit the little plot-cancel there is into their decks if at all possible.
  3. Find ways to draw your opponent's Valar early while holding back enough to rebuild faster and stronger.
  4. Narrow Escape in weenie/rush decks (there's a reason it is about the most common Restricted card for Baratheon)
  5. Don't over-extend so you never lose too much.
  6. Know it's coming, suck it up, and hope you aren't drawing so bad that you can't come back.

Honestly, #5 and 6 are probably the most common method of dealing with Valar and other mass resets. Not very satisfying, but there it is.



#3 Jivewookiee

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:15 AM

I thought you couldn't use character saves and the like against those plots. I can't find Valar but Wildfire Assault says "Cannot be saved".

 

Same with characters that have stacks of the same card. i was under the impression that the character dies anyway.


Edited by Jivewookiee, 12 May 2014 - 01:18 AM.


#4 ktom

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:21 AM

Wildfire is "cannot be saved," but it leaves you with your 3 best characters (assuming you can't use "cannot be killed" effects to keep more). Wildfire is more of an equalizer than a reset. It actually sees considerably less play than Valar.

 

Valar is not "cannot be saved." It may be a complete reset, but there are more options for keeping characters around.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "characters that have stacks of the same card"? Do you mean dupes on unique cards? Those are just a specific type of "save" effect.



#5 Jivewookiee

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:32 AM

By character stacks I mean playing the same version of Robert Baratheon on another version of Robert Baratheon. Giving him extra lives so to speak.

 

In regards to your Valar comment, what are the options for keeping characters around?



#6 ktom

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:47 AM

By character stacks I mean playing the same version of Robert Baratheon on another version of Robert Baratheon. Giving him extra lives so to speak.

 

Those are called "duplicates," or "dupes" for short. I suppose "extra life" is as good an explanation as anything. It functions as a save effect though - just so universal that it can save from anything that tries to remove the card from play.

 

In regards to your Valar comment, what are the options for keeping characters around?

 

Everything listed above, but the option to use "save" effects, mostly. You see it in Greyjoy a lot - a House with a lot of access to save effects. They play Valar themselves, but use "save from being killed" effects to protect their own characters, often resulting in a rather one-sided reset.

 

The "more options" comment was really in comparison to Wildfire. Wildfire doesn't give you the option to save, but the effect itself lets you keep 3 characters - and you will choose your best 3, of course. Valar doesn't let you keep any characters as part of the effect, but it does give you the option to save your characters from it.



#7 Jivewookiee

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:24 AM

So if I have Robert Baratheon with two duplicates, Stannis with one and Renly with zero, after a Valar I have Robert with one duplicate, Stannis with none and Renly is dead?

 

EDIT: So even with Wildfire Assault the above would still work?


Edited by Jivewookiee, 12 May 2014 - 09:27 AM.


#8 ktom

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:40 AM

So if I have Robert Baratheon with two duplicates, Stannis with one and Renly with zero, after a Valar I have Robert with one duplicate, Stannis with none and Renly is dead?

 

Correct.

 

EDIT: So even with Wildfire Assault the above would still work?

 

No. If you have Robert with two dupes, Stannis with one, and Renly with 0, then someone reveals Wildfire, you would choose Robert, Stannis, and Renly, then kill all other characters. Since nothing ever tried to kill Robert, Stannis and Renly were never in danger and didn't need to be saved (which they couldn't, anyway).

 

So after Wildfire resolves, you still have Robert with two dupes, Stannis with one, and Renly with 0 in play.


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