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Celebrimbor's Secret- The most anticipated AP so far?


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#21 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:06 AM

Netrunner is extremely young, and he already has 2 deluxes and 12 aps. And I see netrunner news on the news page all the time.


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#22 Rapier

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:21 AM

 

Seems to be plenty of releases.

Not as many player cards per release though.

 

This is the real issue with the development of the decks. Most of the competitive LCG's only contain player cards, so they have the development of themes and traits and alternative styles of play much more rapidly.

Also as fully competitive games they have a much more living tournament scene, receive timely errata on any cards that need it and have many advantages (in general the board game developing community is more experienced at making competitive games, and competitive card games).

 

We've been left with a lot of dead traits as a result of this. (Beorns have no develoment at all, we have Esgorath and Dale with no idea at all how they will play or even if they'll play differently from other human traits) - until the most recent set of card spoilers warrior and traits like that (other than noble) were actually useless.


Not that I want to do the game down - I'm sure the adventures take a lot of designing and testing as well so it's not that we get less cards - it's just that we get all the cards for our "opponents" and we never get to play as "them".



#23 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:25 AM

I for one doubt that we'll ever see the support of the traits such as beorning or esgorath, traits function not only as a game-mechanic related, but also as a theme-related, giving us a bit much of a story behind the card.


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#24 Ana

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:41 AM

 

 

Seems to be plenty of releases.

Not as many player cards per release though.

 

This is the real issue with the development of the decks. Most of the competitive LCG's only contain player cards, so they have the development of themes and traits and alternative styles of play much more rapidly.

Also as fully competitive games they have a much more living tournament scene, receive timely errata on any cards that need it and have many advantages (in general the board game developing community is more experienced at making competitive games, and competitive card games).

 

We've been left with a lot of dead traits as a result of this. (Beorns have no develoment at all, we have Esgorath and Dale with no idea at all how they will play or even if they'll play differently from other human traits) - until the most recent set of card spoilers warrior and traits like that (other than noble) were actually useless.


Not that I want to do the game down - I'm sure the adventures take a lot of designing and testing as well so it's not that we get less cards - it's just that we get all the cards for our "opponents" and we never get to play as "them".

 

I really think the main problem here was the lack of foresight -- or the change of direction since the beginning. To be clear, I really like where the game is going at the moment, I think the current design team is doing a very good job. But, they have a hard deal ahead of them. As you say, so many dead traits from the start, like Archer or Healer. We have not seen any support for Archer and it makes very little sense too as you have the ranged keyword. And none of the ranged heroes are Archers. Then you see a boon card giving the Healer trait, yet there is no support of it whatsoever. I want this to change, I want the gaps to be filled but as you say, there is not much room within the 10 player cards we get with each expansion, and since there are constant delays and we only get a cycle per year, this gets really complicated.

 

That said, I just love the game and I want it to continue indefinitely, so the problems now may become good things in the future as they get solved. I want to see more weapons, more items, more skills. I want to see even Beornings and Dale and Esgaroth developed -- up to a point at least (and I really think it is actually easier to design cards for the minor traits as you need not worry too much about broken synergies when the cards are few). I want to see armies developed, so maybe even the Archers (not to mention Warriors) get their place. The Captain of Gondor or Wingfoot, they are interesting cards but they do nothing for the ranger or warrior allies, for instance. This needs to be solved, I feel. Well, I stop ranting now...


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#25 Rapier

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 03:12 AM

 

 

 

 

 

I really think the main problem here was the lack of foresight -- or the change of direction since the beginning. To be clear, I really like where the game is going at the moment, I think the current design team is doing a very good job. But, they have a hard deal ahead of them. As you say, so many dead traits from the start, like Archer or Healer. We have not seen any support for Archer and it makes very little sense too as you have the ranged keyword. And none of the ranged heroes are Archers. Then you see a boon card giving the Healer trait, yet there is no support of it whatsoever. I want this to change, I want the gaps to be filled but as you say, there is not much room within the 10 player cards we get with each expansion, and since there are constant delays and we only get a cycle per year, this gets really complicated.

 

That said, I just love the game and I want it to continue indefinitely, so the problems now may become good things in the future as they get solved. I want to see more weapons, more items, more skills. I want to see even Beornings and Dale and Esgaroth developed -- up to a point at least (and I really think it is actually easier to design cards for the minor traits as you need not worry too much about broken synergies when the cards are few). I want to see armies developed, so maybe even the Archers (not to mention Warriors) get their place. The Captain of Gondor or Wingfoot, they are interesting cards but they do nothing for the ranger or warrior allies, for instance. This needs to be solved, I feel. Well, I stop ranting now...

 

 

You're right it all depends on the length the game goes. It's also a shame (I feel) that many people are so reluctant to have errata in this game compared to any competitive game.

They wouldn't bother taking out traits that were dead (healer, archer) because they're not effecting anything - but it may be that as they start to develop these traits they realize they're useful and they haven't maintained them. (We have plenty of ranged characters that aren't archers, and plenty of healers that aren't healer).

All games of this scope have problems at release - the most successful (Magic) gets around it by just having all cards become obsolete - meaning that if they do make a mistake it doesn't effect the main formats of the game for too long. I think they had pretty good foresight to include everything they did in the core set.

Then during the first cycle they dropped some of the stuff that wasn't currently useful (archer trait) - and now they can't really do anything with it without errating the archer trait back in to a whole host of cards. (Although it wouldn't necessarily need to be added to heroes - it could be kept as an ally thing).

Ranged and archer could have been distinct - Vassal of the Windlord has ranged (the ability to attack at range) but not with a bow (so if we got an ally bow attachment that could only be used on... archers that's why you need the trait :P). Even Ithilian Archer doesn't have the archer trait though, so it's highly unlikely that they could use the trait without it being disjointed now.

Looking at the cards that don't have archer though, they might be able to salvage the trait by having it be archers in an army (thematically) rather than anyone that can use a bow - but still.



#26 Ana

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:03 AM

Yes, that is what I thought about the Archer -- that it could be a unit in an army. So far I think only Horseback Archer (Rohan) and Silverlode Archer (Silvan) has it. We can see a Minas Tirith Archer (Gondor), Rivendell Archer (Noldor), etc. and get a nice mechanic for a battle type situation. It would have to be distinctively different from the ranged keyword, I say.

 

I really cannot think what the Healer can do, I am totally puzzled why he was selected as one of the four in the saga. Elrond, probably the most famous healer of the age, did not get the trait. Similar with the Minstrel, Rivendell Minstrel is missing it but the new Galadhrim Minstrel (spoilt in the Dunland Trap article) is not. Interesting. And the Craftsman, I feel they could save that one easily.






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