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Beginning of Phase/Timing with Shadows

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#1 Slothgodfather



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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:39 PM

I have a quick question about the timing of the beginning of phase steps and shadows actions.  First we know that each Shadows action is treated as a Player Action that fully resolves for each player independently.


So, take the old Tywin Lannister that has the text:

"At the beginning of the marshalling phase, take 2 gold from the treasury and place it on Tywin".


The Framework Action Window for Marshalling is:

1. Marshalling Phase Begins

2. Bring Cards out of Shadow.


Typically, in a FAW, both FAE complete their Steps 1 - 3 before moving on to the FAW Steps 4, 5 & 6.   However, FAE 2 is actually a Player Action with complete Steps 1 - 6 inside it for each player that brings a card out of shadows.


So, at what point does Tywin get his money?

Edited by Slothgodfather, 07 May 2014 - 03:40 PM.

#2 doulos2k



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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:53 PM

You're wanting something more authoritative, I'm sure... but I can't help but ponder this.


It would seem to me that although Shadows is a Framework Event that is treated like a Player Action... it's STILL a Framework Event, so all Shadows actions would still fire BEFORE passives in the FAW. So, Tywin doesn't get his money until AFTER all Shadows actions have happened.


But - that's just my read based on the flowchart itself... Shadows is weird, so I could be missing something.

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#3 Bomb


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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:11 PM

The precedent that I'd use is self-standing Jaime Lannister (LotR).




I asked a similar question in that thread just to be sure about the new timing windows added to the FAQ for Shadows and basically Passives like this will resolve AFTER you finish bringing cards out of the shadows.

Edited by Bomb, 07 May 2014 - 04:12 PM.

#4 Slothgodfather



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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:18 PM

Hmm.. so you ONLY get to do passives or responses to a card coming out of shadows during the FAE 2 - Bring Cards out of Shadows Steps 1 - 6.   


Then after you resolve all your Shadows actions fully, you have the standard Steps 4, 5 and 6 for the FAW.  


Odd, but ok.

#5 ktom



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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:21 PM

Passive to beginning the phase do indeed come after all players have brought cards out of Shadows.


You're wanting something more authoritative, I'm sure... 


Well, if that's the case, it is in the FAQ (p. 28):


"How should the "beginning of a phase" framework action window be played when cards are being brought out of Shadows?


First, the phase begins as a framework step. Next, cards are brought out of Shadows, following the game rules as specified in the Shadows rules insert. Each card is brought out one at a time, and fully resolved (including responses) before the next card is brought out of Shadows. Each of these individual Shadow actions takes place and resolves in full between steps 3 and 4 of the "Beginning of Phase" framework action window. Finally, the beginning of phase framework window is complete, and passives and responses to the beginning of the phase may be resolved."

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