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Starting Labyrinth of Ruin campaign - Lieutenant Pack choice to make


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#1 SolennelBern

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:51 AM

***Cross posting to BGG to get as much opinions as I can before lunch :P***

 

Hi all! Tonight i'm starting the Labyrinth of Ruin campaign with my brother.  I'll be playing the Overlord and he'll be playing with 4 Heroes.  We know the game well and played a lot together so nothing new for us.
 
But I want to add some new stuff into the game so the Lieutenants comes into mind.  I already ordered Mirklace but won't have him till next week.
 
Now my FLGS have in stock: Raythen, Serena, Ariad and Queen Ariad...only those four.
 
If you really needed to buy one (lol) which one would you get for your LoR campaign?


#2 SolennelBern

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:15 AM

Just read the Lieutenant rules...according to them I can't use any of the LoR lieutenant since they're featured in the campaign?

 

I understand I can't use Queen Ariad since she's the boss of the campaign but could I use Ariad (not Queen) in all the quests that she's not in?



#3 Whitewing

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:59 AM

You can use the decks, you just can't summon the agents.



#4 SolennelBern

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 10:15 AM

You can use the decks, you just can't summon the agents.


I cant summon the agent if the Lieutenant is used in the quest but I could summon the agent, lets say Ariad, in any LoR quests that the Ariad Lieutenant is not used right?

#5 Whitewing

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:39 AM

No, the Ariad Summon Agent card specifically states on it that it cannot be used at all in the LoR campaign.



#6 SolennelBern

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:44 AM

No, the Ariad Summon Agent card specifically states on it that it cannot be used at all in the LoR campaign.

 

No that's the Queen Ariad card, not the Ariad (human form) card which states "You cannot use this card in any quest that uses the Ariad or Queen Ariad lieutenant."



#7 Whitewing

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:26 PM

Well, in that case, then the answer is yes, you cannot summon her in any quest in which she is featured as a lieutenant, but can use her otherwise.



#8 SolennelBern

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:30 PM

Ok thanks, just wanted to make sure since she's waiting in my car right now lol

My FLGS also had Merick Farrow and Eliza Farrow but didn't read many good comments on those two so I passed on them.

 

Did you tried Merick as an agent?



#9 Indalecio

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:42 PM

He can use Ariad as an agent in any quest when she's not there as a lieutenant.

 

I would give Ariad a try if I were to choose between the three you mentioned (excluding Queen Ariad). The Serena deck feels completely pointless (healing that is) and Raythen seems very unfun for the heroes. Ariad is interesting without being stellar. Queen Ariad seems the best out of the 4 hands down (especially combined with Saboteur class), but you auto-excluded her by choosing the LoR campaign. I would pick Ariad. Mini looks cool.

 

This said, with little restrospective from my own campaigns as the OL, I am seriously beginning to think that plot cards aren't worth the investment by a good mile. It surely spices up your experience and gives it some more theme from your own OL perspective, which I agree is a reason alone for trying it out especially if you intend to get the minis anyways. But at the end of the day what you have to give up for enabling meh OL-effects is a big deal for the heroes. These fortune tokens will kill you unless you time your plot card activation like a king, which you simply can't do most of the time. It results in the fact that you cannot consistently use your plot cards, and to me the very fact that you cannot play cards you have purchased is a severe limitation that shouldn't even be in the game. It punishes you too much for playing these cards and I don't like that. This is where I really wonder how other OLs are playing these cards from a pure practical experience. I think I play "some" plot cards something like once every 2-3 quests. Which is not very often at all. I just can't use them more often if I'm not sure I'm going to win the quest thanks to them. Which you cannot predict well because many cards need to be activated at the start of an encounter.

 

That severely restricts the effectiveness of the plot cards. The only playable cards I've found are the ones that cost you nothing to play, or the ones that give you an instant edge for the threat investment (which is only a handful of cards in the huge plot card compendium full of enablers but lacking powerful one-shot effects). Even though you can still activate one single plot card during an encounter and limit your expense, many plot decks build on many cards activated at the same time. The agent card is one of the most useless of all, or at least highly overrated.

 

Anyhow, have a feel about one of these plot decks and let us know what you think.

 

EDIT: Merick is fine.


Edited by Indalecio, 07 May 2014 - 12:43 PM.


#10 SolennelBern

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:01 PM

[...]

 

Anyhow, have a feel about one of these plot decks and let us know what you think.

 

EDIT: Merick is fine.

 

Thanks for the comment! At first I didn't wanted to buy any of those but after reading more about them I found that some Lieutenant packs were great.  Zachareth, Mirklace, Ariad/Queen, Bol'Goreth...all great Agents with cool Plot decks.

 

I wanted a bit more tools for my campaign and with Ariad I think it'll be fun as hell.  Cursed monsters synergies will be fun to use against the do-gooders :P



#11 Indalecio

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:20 PM

You can probably add Alric to that list.

 

To be honest, I haven't been impressed with Mirklace at all. Finishing a campaign currently (just the Shadow Rune Finale to play) with 8 of his plot cards including his Majesty himself and a ton of threat available. Hot monsters are not a great selection in general and you can't enkindle a group every encounter for what it gives you. The card that forces the heroes to pass a test and upon failure suck up their whole stamina is the only true game changer in the deck, and basically the only one I'm looking for using in the Finale. The Agent is good in the quests where you need to block that corridor with a large monster. He is a rock. Apart from that nothing to be excited about. There is one card that makes you deal more damage and heals the monster if it has the hot trait, another costing nothing offering a demised hero to regain more health and fatigue to give you back some threat (useless and completely insane). The earth splitting one is an okay card that allows you to point at any spot on the map and move the heroes 2 or 3 spaces away of your choice if they fail a test. Just costs a million threat tokens overall. I mean, there is some utility in that deck, but 1- not enough good hot monsters available, even Hulks are a bit average to say the least 2- too expensive to pull out. Definitely tier 1 on the coolness factor though, just a bit of a wasted opportunity if you ask me from a pure application perspective.

 

Bol Goreth is fine but I don't see the point of playing this deck aside from pairing it with Infector OL deck. Diseased and Poison are not completely inefficient but they are surely sub-tier conditions out of the lot. I think Ariad would do better if I was to make the decision in a vacuum.

 

The one I find intriguing is Tristayne, he is my next pick for the next campaign.


Edited by Indalecio, 07 May 2014 - 01:22 PM.


#12 SolennelBern

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

Yep, great points and that's why I don't plan to by lots of them, probably gonna stop when I have 1 from each expansions, probably less.  I'll just buy those I like the look of and like their plot decks but won't go as far as collecting all of them.

 

Next on my list is Zachareth and I must admit Tristayne is looking awesome.  I really like Skarn too from Manor or Ravens.  Probably gonna grab Valyndra too on the way.

 

I already have Ariad, ordered Mirklace.  Next buy will mostly be Zachareth and i'll see after that.


Edited by SolennelBern, 07 May 2014 - 02:08 PM.


#13 Indalecio

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 05:58 AM

Speaking of Mirklace, they just spoiled the Lava Beetles in the news section, and I must admit they look more than decent if you´re looking for monsters with the Hot trait. 

 

Did they spoil Skarn's plot deck yet? I would be curious to look at it.



#14 SolennelBern

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:50 AM

I added Zachareth and Bol'Goreth to my loyal Lieutenants!



#15 solitear

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:16 PM

dont confuse quest with campaign.  I read that rule as just preventing you from summoning someone in a quest they are scheduled to appear...Ariad having two forms required special wording.....Just prevents the eviler clone wierdness



#16 Bagpus

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 01:40 AM

I would give Ariad a try if I were to choose between the three you mentioned (excluding Queen Ariad). The Serena deck feels completely pointless (healing that is) and Raythen seems very unfun for the heroes. Ariad is interesting without being stellar. Queen Ariad seems the best out of

This said, with little restrospective from my own campaigns as the OL, I am seriously beginning to think that plot cards aren't worth the investment by a good mile. It surely spices up your experience and gives it some more theme from your own OL perspective, which I agree is a reason alone for trying it out especially if you intend to get the minis anyways. But at the end of the day what you have to give up for enabling meh OL-effects is a big deal for the heroes. These fortune tokens will kill you unless you time your plot card activation like a king, which you simply can't do most of the time. It results in the fact that you cannot consistently use your plot cards, and to me the very fact that you cannot play cards you have purchased is a severe limitation that shouldn't even be in the game. It punishes you too much for playing these cards and I don't like that. This is where I really wonder how other OLs are playing these cards from a pure practical experience. I think I play "some" plot cards something like once every 2-3 quests. Which is not very often at all. I just can't use them more often if I'm not sure I'm going to win the quest thanks to them. Which you cannot predict well because many cards need to be activated at the start of an encounter.

That severely restricts the effectiveness of the plot cards. The only playable cards I've found are the ones that cost you nothing to play, or the ones that give you an instant edge for the threat investment (which is only a handful of cards in the huge plot card compendium full of enablers but lacking powerful one-shot effects). Even though you can still activate one single plot card during an encounter and limit your expense, many plot decks build on many cards activated at the same time. The agent card is one of the most useless of all, or at least highly overrated.

Anyhow, have a feel about one of these plot decks and let us know what you think.

EDIT: Merick is fine.


I agree with your comments on finding you can't play many cards for fear of generating too many fortune tokens. I have started to try out different house rules including:

1.)when heroes spend fortune tokens.. They turn them to threat tokens back in the overlords play area. I like this it works well. Makes the heroes think a bit before buying that extra shop card or re rolling dice.
2.) limiting fortune generation to one per plot card played by the overlord.

Try it; especially point 1.

Edited by Bagpus, 10 May 2014 - 01:42 AM.

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#17 Madmartigan

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 07:15 PM

Plot Deck choice really hinges on synergy with your overall overlord strategy. Which overlord class you are playing makes a big difference. However, in terms of global usefulness in a campaign, I would choose Raythen to disrupt searching, but since you are playing LoR, I might choose Zachareth instead as his plot cards are generally disruptive.


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#18 SolennelBern

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:13 PM

I thought about trying Bol'Goreth with the Infector class...looks really fun.

But Zachareth is in the list too, looks like a really great agent.



#19 asmeus

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 03:14 PM

Currently playing LoR campaign with Sir Alric Farrow's plot deck.

Also just got Ironbounds from SoN.

 

Feeling very Overlord'ish in my mind thinking about Ironbounds with "Unkillable"; "Refuse to Die" e.t.c :D

 

So far definetly worth the price (giving heroes rerolls).

With Ironbounds should be even better.



#20 mm26

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 06:13 AM

 

I would give Ariad a try if I were to choose between the three you mentioned (excluding Queen Ariad). The Serena deck feels completely pointless (healing that is) and Raythen seems very unfun for the heroes. Ariad is interesting without being stellar. Queen Ariad seems the best out of

This said, with little restrospective from my own campaigns as the OL, I am seriously beginning to think that plot cards aren't worth the investment by a good mile. It surely spices up your experience and gives it some more theme from your own OL perspective, which I agree is a reason alone for trying it out especially if you intend to get the minis anyways. But at the end of the day what you have to give up for enabling meh OL-effects is a big deal for the heroes. These fortune tokens will kill you unless you time your plot card activation like a king, which you simply can't do most of the time. It results in the fact that you cannot consistently use your plot cards, and to me the very fact that you cannot play cards you have purchased is a severe limitation that shouldn't even be in the game. It punishes you too much for playing these cards and I don't like that. This is where I really wonder how other OLs are playing these cards from a pure practical experience. I think I play "some" plot cards something like once every 2-3 quests. Which is not very often at all. I just can't use them more often if I'm not sure I'm going to win the quest thanks to them. Which you cannot predict well because many cards need to be activated at the start of an encounter.

That severely restricts the effectiveness of the plot cards. The only playable cards I've found are the ones that cost you nothing to play, or the ones that give you an instant edge for the threat investment (which is only a handful of cards in the huge plot card compendium full of enablers but lacking powerful one-shot effects). Even though you can still activate one single plot card during an encounter and limit your expense, many plot decks build on many cards activated at the same time. The agent card is one of the most useless of all, or at least highly overrated.

Anyhow, have a feel about one of these plot decks and let us know what you think.

EDIT: Merick is fine.


I agree with your comments on finding you can't play many cards for fear of generating too many fortune tokens. I have started to try out different house rules including:

1.)when heroes spend fortune tokens.. They turn them to threat tokens back in the overlords play area. I like this it works well. Makes the heroes think a bit before buying that extra shop card or re rolling dice.
2.) limiting fortune generation to one per plot card played by the overlord.

Try it; especially point 1.

Heroes use of fortune isn't nearly as good as OL use of threat. For 2 threat and Aurium Plating, an OL can give a monster group 2 extra health and immunity to pierce for an entire encounter. The heroes can... reroll 2 dice? take an extra action? draw 1 extra shop card? The benefits aren't even close. If heroes spending fortune gave it back to the OL I would never spend it.

 

Instead of house-ruling around a reasonable rule, play smarter and selective on which plot deck you choose and which cards you decide to use.






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