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#1 Westonard

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

So, with what we know about the Dwarf set, and I don't think it will have everything, most yes, but not everything, What tactics do you think you will run into with the dwarves? Since I plan on getting two of the Dwarf Expansions, I am already tossing around the idea of two Ancestor Statues in a dual regiment army. Looking at them, it honestly seems like Ancestor Statues are semi-niche, it would be a toss up in one regiment skirmishes, because it can make your units tougher, to give you an advantage but you run the risk of your opponent running a heavy ranged army to take down the statue before engaging your army so you can't turtle effectively. But in a mixed dual or triple regiment army with only one regiment of dwarves, I don't see it having a place. In a dual dwarf regiment army or triple regiment army with dual dwarf with elves or empire as a support regiment they would really shine and serve their intended role.

 

Like wise, with the Ancestor Statues, I think a lot of dwarf players will turtle, forcing the opponent to come to them on their terms, especially paired with the Stalwart and Guard key words, which will force the opponent to really commit to kill a unit like an Empowered Hammerers. Of course, the obvious counter to Ancestor Statues would be Plaguebearers which we might see more of, at least in regard to facing dwarf armies. Without knowing what is in the Vampire Counts set at the moment, or even knowing what Lizardmen or Skaven or Dark Elves will bring to the table, it really would be hard to say for sure how they will be countered other than Poison from Lizardmen. Reanimated units that serve as fodder might work just as well, from the Vampire Count side, depending on how the mechanic works exactly. 



#2 Murnaz

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:26 PM

The idea I'm having with the dwarfs is to deploy the Ancestral statue out in front of the deployment zone, and then advancing some Warriors, Queen Helga, and a Flame Cannon directly around it as a first layer of defense. I'd leave  leave the second hero, a runic cannon, a master engineer, and whatever else behind in the deployment zone as the second layer of defense. Preferably, I'd put some dangerous terrain on the flanks of the position to bottleneck the enemy towards those two strong points.

 

I'm honestly kind of worried that the dwarfs are gonna be a overpowered. I'm hoping that dwarf gunlines don't just blow everything to smihthereens. Dwarfs don't like quite as shooty as elves, although I think they'll have a Thunderer (riflemen) unit that hasn't been revealed yet.


Edited by Murnaz, 07 May 2014 - 07:28 PM.


#3 Westonard

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 05:19 AM

Honestly what leaps to mind to counter this would be to have something that blocks LOS and placing it across/in front of the statue/bottle necks. Or to rush up something like Arrer Boyz or anything that can fire at decent range or something like Pistoliers that can scout move before the game begins, and then rush in and take down the statue early, before moving in with everything else. 

 

It will certainly help shape game play and shake up what meta there is at the moment, and it will make terrain placement more important and force people to come up with something other than double BT or SD as chaos or high elves against dwarves.



#4 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:08 AM

I haven't really decided what I think of the dwarves yet.  Certainly they will focus on defensive play, as their key words and toughness implies, but so far I feel like the game balance has been pretty good.  So I'm willing to give the game designers the benefit of the doubt, at the moment.

 

I'm also wondering if there won't be some magic negation in their army.  Something that can remove the effects of other armies lasting effect spells.  That could really break the Sun Dragon/Karl Franz/Shield combo that some people are worried about right now.



#5 SolennelBern

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:49 AM

Dwarves...DWARVES!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ready my keg and bash some heads with them, can't effing wait for this expansion.

 

The two new armies are really unique and sound equally fun to play but i'll always cherish my midgets or doom before anything else! :P 


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#6 Jedhead

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 11:39 PM

The idea I'm having with the dwarfs is to deploy the Ancestral statue out in front of the deployment zone, and then advancing some Warriors, Queen Helga, and a Flame Cannon directly around it as a first layer of defense. I'd leave  leave the second hero, a runic cannon, a master engineer, and whatever else behind in the deployment zone as the second layer of defense. Preferably, I'd put some dangerous terrain on the flanks of the position to bottleneck the enemy towards those two strong points.

 

I'm honestly kind of worried that the dwarfs are gonna be a overpowered. I'm hoping that dwarf gunlines don't just blow everything to smihthereens. Dwarfs don't like quite as shooty as elves, although I think they'll have a Thunderer (riflemen) unit that hasn't been revealed yet.

 

I don't think gunline will be too bad.  I agree (hope) that thunderers are coming next, but they will most likely have a medium range limitation, and as the crossbowmen have taught us, medium range units tend to have trouble with positioning and effective fire support before the enemy overruns them. 

 

I'm actually very excited for Dwarves as a race.  If I were worried about anything, though, it would be all of the crazy toughness their units are packing.  How would you ever kill them if they stacked up on a hand of empowerment cards so all the critical engaged units had six toughness?  It could get crazy...


"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien


#7 Murnaz

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 08:25 AM

 

I don't think gunline will be too bad.  I agree (hope) that thunderers are coming next, but they will most likely have a medium range limitation, and as the crossbowmen have taught us, medium range units tend to have trouble with positioning and effective fire support before the enemy overruns them. 

 

You're absolutely right about Crossbowmen, they are very tricky to play with. Flamers are strong enough that you can Empower them, pin an enemy disk, and then come out firing the next turn in the high likelihood that they survived the melee. I imagine that the Dwarf Thunderers will be as tough or tougher than the Flamers so you can probably use a similar tactic with them.



#8 Jedhead

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 09:28 AM

You're absolutely right about Crossbowmen, they are very tricky to play with. Flamers are strong enough that you can Empower them, pin an enemy disk, and then come out firing the next turn in the high likelihood that they survived the melee. I imagine that the Dwarf Thunderers will be as tough or tougher than the Flamers so you can probably use a similar tactic with them.

 

 

Yeah, I agree they will likely have a high toughness, but I was thinking their combat stats while pinning would probably be well below the norm, which would make this tactic somewhat less useful.  We will have to wait and see.  Either way, I really, really hope they are in the box! 


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"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien


#9 Murnaz

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 11:55 AM

What you could do is pair the Thunderers with one of your harder hitting units and charge the two of them at one forward-positioned enemy unit that lacks the counter strength to kill either of your units. That way, you will have killed an enemy but more importantly, you will have closed the distance to
the enemy's main force with your Thunderers and you can fire away next turn. Napoleonic tactics :). This works pretty well with Flamers, have to see how Thunderers look though.

#10 Jedhead

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 12:44 PM

What you could do is pair the Thunderers with one of your harder hitting units and charge the two of them at one forward-positioned enemy unit that lacks the counter strength to kill either of your units. That way, you will have killed an enemy but more importantly, you will have closed the distance to
the enemy's main force with your Thunderers and you can fire away next turn. Napoleonic tactics :). This works pretty well with Flamers, have to see how Thunderers look though.

 

My dream is that Thunderers might also have the new keyward that lets them fire while pinned.  That would be highly effective, and would remove one of the major weaknesses of the medium range that we have theoretically assigned to them.  It would also leave them vulnerable to their own scatter, though.

 

We have now debated the merits, weaknesses, and potential strategies for a unit that may not even exist.  I find myself doing this in my head on a regular basis with other units as well (i.e. Treemen, Dragon Princes, Silver Helms, White Lions, Wardancers...gee, maybe I like elves). 

 

I love this game!


Edited by Jedhead, 25 May 2014 - 10:23 PM.

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"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien





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