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Plasma cannon burst radius


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#1 Tyrrell

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:07 PM

I see in the revised weapon statistics that the plasma cannon has gone from Blast (1) in the corebook to Blast (3).

 

Is there any reason to think that this is a typo? Was the core book plasma cannon too weak?



#2 Kshatriya

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:16 PM

Yes, Core plasma was pretty weak compared to the other options. 


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#3 Tyrrell

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:08 PM

Does blast 3 agree withthe table top game?



#4 ak-73

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 01:49 AM

Yes, it does. Frag has Blast(4/5). The Plasma Cannon has Blast(3 or 5, if maximal). It must have a significantly bigger blast than the Multi-Melta.

 

Seriously, Plasma is already too weak, even with errata and maximal mode. Use the larger blast radius.

 

Alex


Edited by ak-73, 03 May 2014 - 01:50 AM.

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#5 Tyrrell

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:35 AM

Thanks.



#6 Kshatriya

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:48 PM

Seriously, Plasma is already too weak, even with errata and maximal mode. Use the larger blast radius.

Real talk.

 

Plasma has Blast which is good for killing Hordes, oh wait, a heavy bolter + Metal Storm is much better. And cheaper/lower renown. And hell, scrap the heavy bolter, just go with bolter + fire selector.

 

Well then plasma is good for hitting vehicles, oh wait, a melta is superior in every way to that. And cheaper/lower renown.

 

Well then what about killing big solos, oh wait, a lascannon beats that hands down. And cheaper/lower renown. 

 

Plasma only starts to get competitive with, I think it's the one in RoB that has full-auto capability, but even then it's pricier than many other options. Can't really go wrong with a plasma pistol as a sidearm though...unless you need specialty bolter ammo ofc.



#7 herichimo

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:42 PM

You can use whatever house rules you like, the official radius for the plasma cannon in the optional rules for weapons in the errata is 1, until an new official errata is released.



#8 Tyrrell

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:35 PM

I always wanted a plasma cannon for my necromunda gang so I stil have an unrequited desire.

 

Well then plasma is good for hitting vehicles, oh wait, a melta is superior in every way to that. And cheaper/lower renown.

 

The multi melta has less than half the range, a smaller clip, a smaller blast area, and it costs five more requisition. (and it averages 1.5 points less average damage than the plasma cannonon overload setting).  So "superior in every way" does seem  to be incorrect.

 

edit: the average damage might come out a bit worse for the melta gun compared to the overloaded plasma than I wrote in that the melta rolls fewer dice and therefore has a smaller chance of righteous fury.  It does do more damage than the plasma cannon in normal mode,  4 more damage and two more penetration.

 

A backpack ammo suppy says that it does 100 shots for plasma or melta.  Is that any plasma or melta weapon, or only basic weapons and pistols? I don't see any staement that it doesn't appy to heavy weapons.


Edited by Tyrrell, 03 May 2014 - 08:46 PM.


#9 Tyrrell

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:39 PM

You can use whatever house rules you like, the official radius for the plasma cannon in the optional rules for weapons in the errata is 1, until an new official errata is released.

i just re-downloaed the errata to double check after I saw your post.  The radius is three (in the optional weapon stats.)  It is on page 10.



#10 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 10:25 PM

 

Seriously, Plasma is already too weak, even with errata and maximal mode. Use the larger blast radius.

Real talk.

 

Plasma has Blast which is good for killing Hordes, oh wait, a heavy bolter + Metal Storm is much better. And cheaper/lower renown. And hell, scrap the heavy bolter, just go with bolter + fire selector.

 

Well then plasma is good for hitting vehicles, oh wait, a melta is superior in every way to that. And cheaper/lower renown.

 

Well then what about killing big solos, oh wait, a lascannon beats that hands down. And cheaper/lower renown. 

 

Plasma only starts to get competitive with, I think it's the one in RoB that has full-auto capability, but even then it's pricier than many other options. Can't really go wrong with a plasma pistol as a sidearm though...unless you need specialty bolter ammo ofc.

 

 

But, plasma can do all of these, Melta doesn't do anything against hordes. HBs don't do anything against any but the lightest vehicles. Plasma (just like in TT) is an all-rounder.

 

Also, it's for killing groups of... heavy infantry, which aren't usually represented in the game as Hordes.

 

This does not address your central point, which is that, yes, the larger blast radius should be used. ;)


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 03 May 2014 - 10:27 PM.


#11 ak-73

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 11:42 PM

You can use whatever house rules you like, the official radius for the plasma cannon in the optional rules for weapons in the errata is 1, until an new official errata is released.

 

Jesus, being a nuisance for trying to enforce some posting rules that FFG has never cared about since day 1 (go back in the archives, look it up if you haven't been around or just forgot) and then adding wrong information on top of it, that's rich. Here is another post of me to report for you because I am going to add a house rule and some explanation right on top of it. In the Rules Questions forum. :o

 

A simple d10 is enough to make the Plasmagun/Plasma pistol viable. Plasma Cannon is okay. That way you have on maximal at least 3d10+12 Pen 12

 

It must be enough to bother a Terminator after all, right? In DW, a TDA Marines has typically a soak of 24, leading to 3d10+8 penetrating - or about 24 points. That's good enough. Problem is: you only have it every other round.

 

How does it stack up against a Rhino? 3d10+12 Pen 12 for about 10 damage points penetrating per hit. That's pretty good, especially since Rhinos are easy to hit.

 

So... heavy infantry - check, light armoured cavalry - check. Another helpful advice: whenever you see in the rules something that gives a damage bonus to ranged, half its effects (rounding up) for semi/full auto - on principle. Otherwise things such as Weapons-Tech will become a complete OP beast combo from hell with the Barrage Plasmagun. :D

 

Speaking of the weapons in RoB, I believe they were a response to realizing that melta and plasma were weak... before Ross had the courage to come up with a set of completely new house rules errata stats. :lol:

 

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#12 herichimo

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:46 PM

Its not a nusaince, people come here for official answers to the rules of the game. Let's not confuse them with all sorts of house rules mucking it all up.

 

Also there is a forum section for house rules, its called, "Deathwatch House Rules".

 

Oranges go in the orange bin, bannanas in the bannana bin.



#13 herichimo

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:51 PM

 

You can use whatever house rules you like, the official radius for the plasma cannon in the optional rules for weapons in the errata is 1, until an new official errata is released.

i just re-downloaed the errata to double check after I saw your post.  The radius is three (in the optional weapon stats.)  It is on page 10.

 

Cool, I didn't re-check the errata myself when I posted, I thought to but the point wasn't precisely about getting the info right (I assumed you were saying it was (1) and was taking your word for it, but I think I got your statement a bit mixed up, that's what I get for assuming) and just meant to readdress the "official" rules (even though they are optional).

 

Good catch.



#14 ak-73

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:09 PM

Its not a nusaince, people come here for official answers to the rules of the game. Let's not confuse them with all sorts of house rules mucking it all up.

 

Historically, there has never been a divide this strict and it also makes sense to discuss related issues within one thread (ie, highlighting problems with specific rules and suggesting solutions.)

 

Alex


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#15 Kshatriya

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:23 AM

 

 

Seriously, Plasma is already too weak, even with errata and maximal mode. Use the larger blast radius.

Real talk.

 

Plasma has Blast which is good for killing Hordes, oh wait, a heavy bolter + Metal Storm is much better. And cheaper/lower renown. And hell, scrap the heavy bolter, just go with bolter + fire selector.

 

Well then plasma is good for hitting vehicles, oh wait, a melta is superior in every way to that. And cheaper/lower renown.

 

Well then what about killing big solos, oh wait, a lascannon beats that hands down. And cheaper/lower renown. 

 

Plasma only starts to get competitive with, I think it's the one in RoB that has full-auto capability, but even then it's pricier than many other options. Can't really go wrong with a plasma pistol as a sidearm though...unless you need specialty bolter ammo ofc.

 

 

But, plasma can do all of these, Melta doesn't do anything against hordes. HBs don't do anything against any but the lightest vehicles. Plasma (just like in TT) is an all-rounder.

 

I disagree that plasma can do all of them. I see your point on the melta, but that's why pretty much everyone starts with a bolter.

 

Pretty much nothing does anything to heavier vehicles in this game, but that's a long-standing, well-logged complaint. 

 

In a game of specialists, the generalist may be the most applicable but also of middling overall effectiveness. Unless you get whichever one is in RoB, that's a pretty solid plasma imo.


Edited by Kshatriya, 05 May 2014 - 08:24 AM.


#16 herichimo

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:17 AM

 

Its not a nusaince, people come here for official answers to the rules of the game. Let's not confuse them with all sorts of house rules mucking it all up.

 

Historically, there has never been a divide this strict and it also makes sense to discuss related issues within one thread (ie, highlighting problems with specific rules and suggesting solutions.)

 

Alex

 

Since I can't personal message you for some reason I'll put this final (I won't cloud this forum with this OT any longer) here.

 

Discussion is fine

As long as it is not misrepresented as the official answer.

 

I have no problem with discussion concerning areas definately not covered by the rules. Melee combat against armored vehicles for instance. But when the question has an actual, official, answer; the response, especially the first one, should be that official actual answer. Not a house rule you personally prefer.

 

After the real answer is given, then feel free to inject your bias (this is what personal preference is, this isn't a malicious comment), preferrably with an obvious disclaimer.



#17 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:22 AM

 

 

 

Seriously, Plasma is already too weak, even with errata and maximal mode. Use the larger blast radius.

Real talk.

 

Plasma has Blast which is good for killing Hordes, oh wait, a heavy bolter + Metal Storm is much better. And cheaper/lower renown. And hell, scrap the heavy bolter, just go with bolter + fire selector.

 

Well then plasma is good for hitting vehicles, oh wait, a melta is superior in every way to that. And cheaper/lower renown.

 

Well then what about killing big solos, oh wait, a lascannon beats that hands down. And cheaper/lower renown. 

 

Plasma only starts to get competitive with, I think it's the one in RoB that has full-auto capability, but even then it's pricier than many other options. Can't really go wrong with a plasma pistol as a sidearm though...unless you need specialty bolter ammo ofc.

 

 

But, plasma can do all of these, Melta doesn't do anything against hordes. HBs don't do anything against any but the lightest vehicles. Plasma (just like in TT) is an all-rounder.

 

I disagree that plasma can do all of them. I see your point on the melta, but that's why pretty much everyone starts with a bolter.

 

Pretty much nothing does anything to heavier vehicles in this game, but that's a long-standing, well-logged complaint. 

 

In a game of specialists, the generalist may be the most applicable but also of middling overall effectiveness. Unless you get whichever one is in RoB, that's a pretty solid plasma imo.

 

 

Plasma can wreck vehicles. Not _heavy_ vehicles, but a plasma cannon will hurt something on a target as hard as a Dreadnought from the front. Whereas a heavy bolter will bounce off. (The plasma cannon also has a hard time missing.)

 

(Average 28.5 damage on overload, not counting extra average damage for DoS,  minus 25 for front armour = 3.5, with 30% chance of Righteous Fury -- which will automatically trigger due to Volatile.)

 

It will wreck a landspeeder. (In fact an average hit on overload with bring a landspeeder down to negative structural integrity.) And again unlike the heavy bolter the plasma cannon is unlikely to miss.

 

I am ASSUMING that BC/OW modifiers to hit are in place with that last comment.



#18 ak-73

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:04 AM

Yes, the Plasma Cannon. Unfortunately, the Plasma Gun/Pistol miss a whole d10.

 

Hitting a vehicle is probably easy for a Devastator, even with BC/OW. However, I see the PC as 3d10+12 Pen 12 on maximal. Added together against vehicle armour, I arrive at 39.5. If you use multiple exploding dice, instead of 1d5 crits, for Righteous Fury like me, the PC can threaten vehicles more comparably to the PC in TT.

 

Alex


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#19 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:32 AM

If you push the plasma gun in line with TT (which would be  autocannon-level damage with Pen 12 or so) -- would you do the same for Overheats/Gets Hot?



#20 ak-73

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:05 AM

Just add 1d10 to damage and you're good. 3d10+12 Pen 12 on maximal. If the gun overheats, you'd then get 3d10+12 Pen 0 as per rules. But you have almost no reason to not drop the gun (unless flying) so you'll never get it. I might call for an Agility test instead perhaps. I mean... Marines die from such things (see TT), there should be some risk. Most importantly, it gives additional incentive to not shoot on maximal whenever possible.

 

Alex


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