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#1 Durzodur

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:49 AM

First question (sorry for my english) :

 

- Can you fire (with a pistol) on an opponent out of your melee when you are in melee ?

 

- What are the malus/bonus for firing into melee with a pistol when your are in melee ? (nothing, -20 for firing in an opponent in melee, or more ?)

 

Thanks !



#2 SolP

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:06 AM

DWcore P. 247 "Characters that are engaged in melee can only make attack actions with the melee subtype."
 

To me that means that if you want to attack another target with a ranged attack, you are leaving your original melee combat, which then would give your opponents a free standard attack, unless you disengage first. (see Fleeing, p. 241 DW core)

 

Making a ranged attack agianst someone engaged in melee gives -20% to BS, p. 247 DW core.


Edited by SolP, 02 May 2014 - 07:08 AM.


#3 Kshatriya

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:46 AM

I disagree that shooting at a target you're not engaged with counts as "leaving melee" sufficient to prompt an AoO, because you haven't taken a step outside of engagement range, you're just shooting at another target. And pistols can be used in melee regardless. I would probably give a -20 penalty to the attempt, just like the penalty to shoot in to melee.

 

If you're in melee with, say, a genestealer and you try to shoot it with your pistol, there's no penalty.


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#4 ak-73

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:48 AM

When you are in melee, you can only fire at your own melee opponents.

 

As a GM, I might allow you to make a ranged attack - after enduring a free hack from all your melee opponents. Assuming you are able to attack after that, you might be able to go ahead.

 

Alex


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#5 ak-73

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:51 AM

I disagree that shooting at a target you're not engaged with counts as "leaving melee" sufficient to prompt an AoO, because you haven't taken a step outside of engagement range, you're just shooting at another target. And pistols can be used in melee regardless. I would probably give a -20 penalty to the attempt, just like the penalty to shoot in to melee.

 

If you're in melee with, say, a genestealer and you try to shoot it with your pistol, there's no penalty.

 

It's not covered by the rules. Basically you can't shoot at someone you're not in melee with, if you're in melee with someone. So the only way would be to Disengage and then shoot before the enemies can reengage. However, a house rule to allow it could make sense, I would conduct a round of free hacks/attacks of opportunity first.

 

Alex


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#6 Durzodur

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:03 AM

Thanks !

 

Another question :

 

- Does psychic powers need to make a distant attack roll to hit ?



#7 ak-73

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:18 AM

Only very specific ones like Smite. With Smite you do a shooting attack but don't use BS but WP+5xPR (basically a Focus test modified by shooting modifiers).

 

Other powers only need the Focus test. If they are "opposed" powers, the target can cancel the attackers Degrees of Success (DoS) with a straight WP test. Basically, the psyker needs more net DoS to effect a target.

 

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#8 herichimo

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:54 PM

First question (sorry for my english) :

 

- Can you fire (with a pistol) on an opponent out of your melee when you are in melee ?

 

- What are the malus/bonus for firing into melee with a pistol when your are in melee ? (nothing, -20 for firing in an opponent in melee, or more ?)

 

Thanks !

 

Page 140 of the DW:Core states pistols may be used to make a Standard Attack using BS while a character is engaged in melee. You do not gain bonuses or penalties for range or targeting equipment or sights and the attack is still considered a ranged attack for the purpose of talents etc. If the weapon has the scatter quality it counts as being point blank (but no to-hit bonus).

 

But, you cannot fire the pistol at targets you are nor personnally engaged with, as that would then be considered a normal ranged attack (which doesn't have the melee subtype and is forbidden while engaged in melee).

 

Using the melee standard attack option with pistols against targets you are engaged with confers no penalties for "shooting into melee."



#9 herichimo

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:58 PM

Thanks !

 

Another question :

 

- Does psychic powers need to make a distant attack roll to hit ?

The psychic power's entry will identify if the power's Focus Power Test is modified by the target's range from the psyker.

 

 

 

Aside: Please refrain from using the Official Rules Forum to suggest house rules.



#10 ak-73

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 10:52 PM

Aside: Please refrain from using the Official Rules Forum to suggest house rules.

 

No, I won't. And please refrain from going all Imperial Fist on everybody else, thank you.

 

I have been here since the subforum came into life and have posted enough on these forums to understand how they work and don't work. Socializing on these forums, including the Rules Questions subforums, just as an example, is completely okay and has been since day 1. If you don't like it, feel free, to report me because I will certainly not stop saying what I want to say just because another poster doesn't like it.

 

If anything, you could cut down on the redundancy.

 

Alex


Edited by ak-73, 03 May 2014 - 11:01 PM.

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#11 Durzodur

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:57 AM

A new little question :

 

- How do you manage the death of a player character (I know that there is a rule about glands that give bonus to the new character), but what is the core rule to a new character (do it keep the experience and renown of the last character) ?

 

Thanks !



#12 ak-73

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 05:27 AM

Basically there is no hard-and-fast rules governing it as far as I know - although page 271 implies that the new character should have enough xp to meet the minimum requirements for the same rank that other players have.

 

I haven found that renown is generally more important than rank. I let new PCs start at rank 1 but give them the same renown rank as the other players.

 

Alex


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#13 herichimo

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:55 PM

 

Aside: Please refrain from using the Official Rules Forum to suggest house rules.

 

No, I won't. And please refrain from going all Imperial Fist on everybody else, thank you.

 

I have been here since the subforum came into life and have posted enough on these forums to understand how they work and don't work. Socializing on these forums, including the Rules Questions subforums, just as an example, is completely okay and has been since day 1. If you don't like it, feel free, to report me because I will certainly not stop saying what I want to say just because another poster doesn't like it.

 

If anything, you could cut down on the redundancy.

 

Alex

 

Let me rephrase it then.

 

Don't confuse people coming into the Deathwatch Rules Question forums for official answers with house rules which belong in the Deathwatch House Rules forum.

 

If you feel it necessary to post a house rule, put a disclaimer with it. The redundancy would not be necessary if a certain small number of persons would not continuously cloud the waters with their interpretation of how the game should be played. This section is for official answers to the rules, not to influence others to play your way. Answer their questions correctly, then let them decide how they want to play on their own.


Edited by herichimo, 04 May 2014 - 08:59 PM.


#14 herichimo

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:57 PM

A new little question :

 

- How do you manage the death of a player character (I know that there is a rule about glands that give bonus to the new character), but what is the core rule to a new character (do it keep the experience and renown of the last character) ?

 

Thanks !

It is up to the GM.

 

Page 271 have rules for additional rewards based upon roleplaying results.

 

If the GM decrees all new players will have XP equal to the average player rank but a character dies via heroic sacrifice; the new character should start out as (the GM ruled) with the minimum for the average rank plus the extra from heroic sacrifice.



#15 ak-73

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:23 PM

 

 

Aside: Please refrain from using the Official Rules Forum to suggest house rules.

 

No, I won't. And please refrain from going all Imperial Fist on everybody else, thank you.

 

I have been here since the subforum came into life and have posted enough on these forums to understand how they work and don't work. Socializing on these forums, including the Rules Questions subforums, just as an example, is completely okay and has been since day 1. If you don't like it, feel free, to report me because I will certainly not stop saying what I want to say just because another poster doesn't like it.

 

If anything, you could cut down on the redundancy.

 

Alex

 

Let me rephrase it then.

 

Don't confuse people coming into the Deathwatch Rules Question forums for official answers with house rules which belong in the Deathwatch House Rules forum.

 

For as long as people don't indicate any confusion, you have no point here. People who debate rules here and suggest house rules generally do so in a manner that readers can distinguish official ruling from house rule. It seems more like your personal desire to maintain a strict seperation which has never been strictly adhered in here - and which, quite frankly, not everyone here seems to be strict about still.  Hence my reference to the Imperial Fists.

 

 

If you feel it necessary to post a house rule, put a disclaimer with it. The redundancy would not be necessary if a certain small number of persons would not continuously cloud the waters with their interpretation of how the game should be played. This section is for official answers to the rules, not to influence others to play your way. Answer their questions correctly, then let them decide how they want to play on their own.

 

This section is not for official answers to the rules, this section is about asking other players about "official" rules. If someone wants an official answer, there is a form for that at the bottom of this page under "Rules Questions". I'm sure that questions there will be handled in a business-like manner and not as an informal conversation between hobbyists. And if from a rules question a discussion about said rules spins further, that is just fine with me. The more traffic the better.

 

So, I reject your approach. If there is a good conversation about rules is to be had here, it's just fine with me. I prefer to see the House Rules section get used for more sweeping changes, like chapter rules, etc.

 

[Edit] Also, I am referring you to the first post in this sub-forum. Take the thing about discussion to heart.

 

Alex


Edited by ak-73, 04 May 2014 - 09:26 PM.

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#16 Kshatriya

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:26 AM

A new little question :

 

- How do you manage the death of a player character (I know that there is a rule about glands that give bonus to the new character), but what is the core rule to a new character (do it keep the experience and renown of the last character) ?

 

Thanks !

It's completely up to you. I wouldn't start a player's new character from scratch XP though. I feel like it's unnecessarily punitive: you lost your character AND have to start over from the beginning. Meh. And I can't suspend disbelief that a guy with 13,000 XP is also Hero renown or whatever.



#17 pearldrum1

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:43 PM

 

I disagree that shooting at a target you're not engaged with counts as "leaving melee" sufficient to prompt an AoO, because you haven't taken a step outside of engagement range, you're just shooting at another target. And pistols can be used in melee regardless. I would probably give a -20 penalty to the attempt, just like the penalty to shoot in to melee.

 

If you're in melee with, say, a genestealer and you try to shoot it with your pistol, there's no penalty.

 

It's not covered by the rules. Basically you can't shoot at someone you're not in melee with, if you're in melee with someone. So the only way would be to Disengage and then shoot before the enemies can reengage. However, a house rule to allow it could make sense, I would conduct a round of free hacks/attacks of opportunity first.

 

Alex

 

 

I allow my players to use a fate point to "ignore melee" and say fire their heavy bolter at something else within their line of sight.

 

Because fate points are the Emperor's way of saying he loves us.



#18 ak-73

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 02:56 AM

I am a bit concerned about this as it eases the pressure to make sound tactical decisions.

 

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#19 pearldrum1

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 05:42 AM

Then I would advise you not to use it in your games, but this hasn't been my experience.

 

It has been my experience that if one is GMing right, the player should really have to think if using a FP to fire on a secondary target is really worth it, especially when they are running low on health and ammo. If anything it encourages sound strategic thinking.


Edited by pearldrum1, 08 May 2014 - 05:43 AM.


#20 ak-73

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 05:48 AM

Maybe the players should have better planned on that before entering melee. demonio.gif

 

The RAW alternative is, if going last in a turn, to Disengage and to spend Fate for a 10 init roll on the next turn - to shoot before the enemy can reengage.

 

Alex


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