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Influence vs animals


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#1 Ferretz

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:31 PM

So our group came up against a couple of cybernetically enhanced Nexu today. After ambushing the hasty Bothan in the group, the one Nexu picked him up in his jaws and started to shake him around. 

 

So, the group's Force Senstive diplomat wanted to use Influence to scare off the Nexu. I couldn't find anything in the rules that says he couldn't do this. Still, using the Force on the mind of a beast seems a bit more difficult, so I just upgraded his difficulty once. 

 

So, have we missed something? Can Influence be used on animals?

 

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#2 Kshatriya

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:40 PM

I think you made a good call, though I probably would have added Setbacks for the Nexu being predators that were currently aggressive towards the PCs. I think it'd be harder than the standard mind-trick, especially with a language barrier (or in this case, nexu not having language at all).



#3 Deve Sunstriker

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:58 PM

Didn't Anakin use a mind-trick on the reek in the arena on Geonosis in Ep. II? Granted, his midi-chlorian count is over 9000(!!!) but it certainly seems feasible to use Influence on an aggressive creature.


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#4 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:55 PM

Well... i might be alone here but I would think it is actually easier to perform a mind trick on an animal then it is on a sentient being... Kind of like throwing an imaginary ball and having a dog run to get it anyway.

Edited by DanteRotterdam, 25 April 2014 - 05:55 PM.

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#5 yeti1069

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:53 PM

I'd probably add a Setback for the language barrier, and maybe another for trying to influence a very different thought process from your own. Not sure if I'd also add a Boost to represent animals being of somewhat simpler mind, or whether I'd assume the lack of ranks in Discipline covers that.


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#6 kaosoe

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:15 PM

Although not the same scenario, I had a something similar occur when running Beyond the Rim with my group. My wife plays a Chiss Politico, she loves playing a face but despises combat, so Politico was right up her ally. Since she focused on Scathing Tirade and being an intimidating person, she wanted to stare down the Nexu to shoo them off. Honestly, I had no problem with it, but these are unthinking beasts. I wanted to allow it, so I told her she could do it would it, but I'll upgrade the difficulty plus add a setback. She got to use her talent to remove the setback and everyone was happy.

 

So definitely stick with that "Yes... but" mentality.

 

Edit: What was I drinking when I wrote this? Edited for clarity.


Edited by kaosoe, 26 April 2014 - 06:31 AM.

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#7 Kshatriya

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:50 PM

Well... i might be alone here but I would think it is actually easier to perform a mind trick on an animal then it is on a sentient being... Kind of like throwing an imaginary ball and having a dog run to get it anyway.

Thing is, in the movies, we've only really seen mind tricks used on adversaries that share the "caster's" language. I think it might be harder if they don't. And animal intelligence makes it easier, but not having the "right language" is another (i.e. body language and pheromones for animals, or trying to translate a complex thought into their more simple mind).



#8 Maveritchell

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:14 PM

Thing is, in the movies, we've only really seen mind tricks used on adversaries that share the "caster's" language. I think it might be harder if they don't. And animal intelligence makes it easier, but not having the "right language" is another (i.e. body language and pheromones for animals, or trying to translate a complex thought into their more simple mind).

 

 

Mind tricks - just going off the movies - work on the "weak-minded." The weaker the mind, the easier the trick (assumedly). Luke uses it no problem against Bib Fortuna (who we only saw speaking Huttese).

 

And, like Deve mentioned upthread, Anakin may have used a Mind Trick on a Reek at Geonosis.


Edited by Maveritchell, 26 April 2014 - 10:36 PM.


#9 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 12:23 AM

I think it depends on what the character is actually doing.

 

If they are trying to verbally threaten a beast, then no.

 

If they are raising their hands, roaring at them, and generally posturing as an alpha/threat, then I would just go straight Coercion. 

 

Obi Wan uses the force to scare off the sand people in ANH. That would work just as well against a beast. 

 

A droid in our party uses loud klaxon when he does Scathing Tirade. That works great on animals (not so much when they want to be quiet).

 

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#10 whafrog

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:38 AM

Obiwan handles a whole herd of predators in one of the TCW Ryloth episodes, so it's definitely possible.

#11 2P51

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:07 AM

Didn't Anakin use a mind-trick on the reek in the arena on Geonosis in Ep. II? Granted, his midi-chlorian count is over 9000(!!!) but it certainly seems feasible to use Influence on an aggressive creature.

That, or he watched Crocodile Dundee a bunch of times.....


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#12 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 01:51 PM

Thing is, in the movies, we've only really seen mind tricks used on adversaries that share the "caster's" language. I think it might be harder if they don't. And animal intelligence makes it easier, but not having the "right language" is another (i.e. body language and pheromones for animals, or trying to translate a complex thought into their more simple mind).

 
Mind tricks - just going off the movies - work on the "weak-minded." The weaker the mind, the easier the trick (assumedly). Luke uses it no problem against Bib Fortuna (who we only saw speaking Huttese).
 
And, like Deve mentioned upthread, Anakin may have used a Mind Trick on a Reek at Geonosis.

Dude, when you use the quote function then make sure you attribute the quote to the right person...

#13 Kshatriya

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 03:07 PM

Obi Wan uses the force to scare off the sand people in ANH. That would work just as well against a beast. 

I thought he just faked a krayt dragon call, but I'll admit that scene always confused me because if the sand people see Obi-Wan, he's clearly not a krayt dragon...

 

I think part of the EU explained that, when Obi-Wan kicked A'Sharad Hett's ass (Jedi who was raised as a sand person and returned to Tatooine after Order 66) the other sand people really started giving the crazy hermit all the space he wanted.



#14 Krieger22

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:06 AM

I interpret the whole mind trick thing to be more about emotioin and perception than actual language. In the case of a Nexu or other animal (or some very different alien species) I would go with the OP's idea and increase the difficulty for trying to "translate" those emotions and perceptions. If the animals were already in attack mode I'd toss in a setback die, and in the case of the cyber-Nexu I'd throw in one more to represent that cybernetically enhanced creatures have a slightly lessened connection to the Force.


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#15 Xalendar

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:39 AM

The mind trick can be use for many many things. And is not necessary language related.

From my point of view the "These are not the droids you are looking for" is as important for Obi-wan to "shape" is trick as it is to "force" the assumption to enter the stormtrooper mind.

When the language is relevant and the player role-play it well, then I give boost dices. When it is relevant and badly role-played (or there is a language barrier) I give set-back dices. When the language is irrelevant I don't give any boost or set-back dices for language interactions. Simple.

 

A few non language related mind tricks examples:

  • The "I am not here" trick, basically a psychic invisibility. 
  • The "You are hearing a strange noise from the other side of the corridor" trick, minor psychic illusions.
  • The "I am an opponent far out of your league" trick, psychic fear / awe.
  • Etc.


#16 Col. Orange

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:47 AM

My Clone Wars era Jedi had the Beast Trick talent (Saga - it let you use the Mind Trick power against animals).  I've sent monsters off in the other direction to look for tastier food, "reminded" them that our uniforms marked us as poisonous, tricked them into thinking an enemy just issued a challenge for dominance, and convinced them that there was a female in heat in the next cave along.  Bags of fun.

 

Similar shenanigans with straight Influence in EotE seems fair enough.  Setback dice seem the most appropriate penalty to me, if you're inclined to levy one (feels like making Force powers work at all is hard enough as it is).


Edited by Col. Orange, 28 April 2014 - 08:48 AM.

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