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What's up with this game?


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#1 Mixxathon

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:57 PM

Hi all,

 

After having seen the new Lure of the Dark Side smuggler set, I feel like it is becoming an ridiculously unbalanced game. There is no question that the designer favors the smugglers, but it has come to the point of the game not being fun anymore.

 

Alot of players around here are quitting since there really is no point in playing anything else than smugglers, and having to play the same decks, no matter who you play, gets really old really fast.

 

This, unfortunately, makes alot of players wary of either beginning or continuing to play one of the FFG LCG's, and the migration back to M:tG has begun (making all my efforts to make them change to something new and better completely nullified). LCG's has zero collectability while with M:tG it is possible to eventually recoup (and even make a profit) any investment.

 

This is serious. Star Wars, having an extremely basic deckbuilding (if it can even be called that), is a game that is/should be rich in the tactical choices at gametime. What we have now is Sith Control/Any Smuggler, with alot of totally dead cards in our boxes. It is not even remotely viable to run anything else in a tournament.

 

Maybe it is our meta, but since it is the same decks that gets played in alot of reported tournaments from all over the world, I don't think so.

 

Am I completely wrong? If not, there is exactly zero chance of our gaming community to pick up Conquest when it is released. The Star Wars game scares them away.


I have seen things you people wouldn't believe.


#2 Toqtamish

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:02 PM

in short, yes you are wrong. There is plenty of viable decks even before the addition of the new cards from this cycle. Mow that Echoes has started all kinds of new options are available with more on the way. I am overwhelmed with the number of options available come regional in July.
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#3 Gunner070

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:05 PM

I have had success against Smugglers using a total Scum deck, albeit not a lot. I do agree that they NEED to focus on Jedi and Rebels for the foreseeable future.



#4 See Threebilbo

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:09 PM

I kind of see where you're coming from, but I have high hopes that a lot of the new sets in this cycle will make other factions viable.  As a huge mono-Jedi fan, I really, really hope they come through.



#5 Mixxathon

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:59 PM

Yes, things might change with a bunch of new expansions, granted, but for each merely ok pod all other factions get, the smugglers are getting an absolutely great one, or so it seems. Could they make Dash Rendar any more overpowered? The Lure of the Dark Side had some stuff for the rest too... but come on... Dash Rendar? Really?! Did the smugglers really need that pod to even out the power compared to the Jedi and the Rebels?


I have seen things you people wouldn't believe.


#6 Toqtamish

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:14 PM

You're overreacting to that one objective set. DS has plenty of ways to deal with Dash.
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#7 sutekh22

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:06 PM

I don't think his complaint is that Dark Side can't keep up.  

I think it's that Rebels and Jedi aren't nearly as good as Smugglers, which I agree with.



#8 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:37 PM

There will almost always be a dominant faction, and I am okay with it. The OSet system will ultimately be the medium that brings balance. I would not be too worried about it. Just play.

Welcome to the machine!


#9 The Janitor

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:05 PM

This is exactly the same view I have. The game has turned into Sith Control vs False Report/Dash. At least Dash is something that can be delt with. The real problem is that the threat of False Report shuts down anything but control decks. I love this game, but with the direction that the game is going, I really hate the competitive environment right now. Some of the people in my group are OK with running Sith every tournament, but it's my least favorite affiliation. If you remove FR from the game, Imperial is viable, and Scum is getting there. But until FFG gets over their love of Sith and Smugglers, playing competitively is dead to me.



#10 chunkygorillas

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 12:00 AM

False Report isn't even that good, most Navy players, or at least the ones I play, hang back and build a giant board and play defense till the dial is at 6 or 7 then they just strike 3 times and win the game. Playing super agressive navy, where you just race the LS, is a lot of fun but not very consistent so I really don't false report is that good of a card since most of the time it won't get a chance to be triggered. As for how it affects Sith and Scum it really doesn't, when I play sith I only attack to damage objectives that abilities turn off when they are damaged and when it will win me the game., and for scum, it also really isn;t about blowing up objectives, its about tactics icons and capturing, so again I realy feel like False report doesn;t effect either of those factions negatively.

 

I haven't played with Dash much yet, but he does seem easy to counter, as Sith or Scum, you just never let him attack unopposed and just dump your hand in the edge battle. As navy you can do the same if you are playing defense, if you are playing agro just dump your hand into the edge when you attack.



#11 See Threebilbo

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:25 AM

Those are good points, but I really want to give you kudos for your username.  Well done, sir or madam.



#12 AvogadroTheMole

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:13 PM

I find this interpretation interesting. My view (and those I have been hearing from others) has been that the False Report (and the new Dash set) are about punishing Sith Control w/super-sized hands. I see this as creating diversity within the game. Since the Sith Control archetype is becoming less advantageous, other DS decks become more appealing. Factor in the recent Navy objectives greatly improving their ability to play defense and exert some crontrol over the force as well as the Zuckuss set finally adding a quality group of cards to Scum and you start to see far more variety emerging. This, along with the H&L, Forward Recon & Commando Ops, makes character-driven decks more viable again since the Sith anti-character abilities will be a little less common (plus H&L tricks are fun & Crix Madine + Jan Ors finally give some targets worth searching for w/Hoodie Han). Sith Control will not be going away and if you only ever play it then it will never wane, either. But that means the new Smugglers will have an easy target. If those Sith players try out new Navy & Scum builds they will quickly mitigate some of the Smuggler advantages. While the Smugglers will probably be the strongest overall LS faction for a little while those players can find great counters/mitigations for the alternate DS decks by moving to different Jedi & Rebel builds.

 

I for one am very excited about the number of possibilities opening up and the increasingdiversity of decks I expect to continue seeing. In particular, I cannot wait to see if Hoodie Han, Crix Madine, Jan Ors & maybe Leia can combine for fun shenanigans. I hope you and your group explore these new objective sets fully and look back at the older "dead" cards again before quitting the game. I find the objective system actually helps keep older cards relevant by finding new synergies. For example, I have never used the Core Set Leia & my girlfriend gave up on her a month or two in. I am now itching to see how she fits into a Rebel character/Leaves play-effects deck (as alluded to above).


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#13 See Threebilbo

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:30 PM

I do like the points people are making about Rebel characters, especially since Rebels were touted at the game's beginning as the 'tricky combo quick strike, etc.' LS faction.  Vehicle weenie swarms are okay, but I think the character pods are much more interesting and I would love to see opportunities for them open up.



#14 chunkygorillas

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:21 PM

I do like the points people are making about Rebel characters, especially since Rebels were touted at the game's beginning as the 'tricky combo quick strike, etc.' LS faction.  Vehicle weenie swarms are okay, but I think the character pods are much more interesting and I would love to see opportunities for them open up.

I hope rebel characters get better, the problem with them is that they just have no way to win, you can do cool stuff with them, but sadly in this game as the LS there is really only one way to win, what is smash you opponent in the face with blast damage as fast as possible. The only rebel character right now, that I can think of, that can actually win games is Leia, and that requires you finding a way to get her to leave play haha.



#15 JMCB

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:39 PM

If people stopped playing just Sith, they would find that Smugglers have some bad matchups. I think Scum and Navy can really take the limelight in this metagame, especially if people are lazy and just keep playing the same things.


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#16 Joker Two

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:01 PM

I hope you and your group explore these new objective sets fully and look back at the older "dead" cards again before quitting the game. I find the objective system actually helps keep older cards relevant by finding new synergies.

 

This is a really important aspect of the Objective Set format of deck construction.  Whenever a new Force Pack comes out, I make sure to compare it with all of the older sets to look for newly possible combinations.  My decks are constantly changing, and not just to add new sets, but to bring back old ones.

 

I feel like a lot of people discount many of the Core objectives because most of them aren't focused on a specific mechanic.  Very few contain multiple copies of a single card, and many players will only have one copy of the core.  Force Pack sets, meanwhile, often focus on a single ability, contain multiple copies of important cards, and come in full quantity.  Two consecutive Objective Sets that share the same emphasis can form the heart of a deck by themselves, and they tend to be very visible in previews and on the forum.

 

I recommend taking some time to go back through all of those "dead" cards and reevaluating them.  Now that there's more materiel available, a lot of the older sets have support they didn't have originally.


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#17 JMCB

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:24 PM

Very few contain multiple copies of a single card, and many players will only have one copy of the core. 

 

This is not true at all. Most people that play this game on any more than a basic trial of the game have at least 2 core sets purchased. The rest of your advice is pretty sound though.


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#18 Goknights12

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:44 PM

So I think everyone goes through this process at some point, but I think they are doing a better job of balancing everything now. Yes Dash and Free Holders are good, but they are not great, they are not Sleuths. They can be killed and blocked etc. Plus if you look ahead, it looks like smugglers may be done in this set, or at least with good cards.

 

Look at what the Scum is getting with the IG-88 set, or how the Jedi will soon win the game with the force, keeping the dial low with the Moldy Crow setting the tone.

 

The Rebels and Navy may need the most help to become a sole affiliated deck to be honest, but their cards are great to help in splash decks.

 

I think we are seeing a situation now that will be fixed in the next few expansions.



#19 Toqtamish

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:21 PM

Navy is already great in mono decks. Won me several tournaments last month.
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#20 Goknights12

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:30 AM

What was in your Navy deck? I am curious, because I just never seem to see them work against the Sleuths.  Also I just worry about this game, because there are multiple people that say they are just going to quit ect. Why is it that a game like Call of Cthulu which seems to have been around much longer and doesn't have the same fan base keep going without these concerns, but this game continues to pick up large criticism?






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