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sorcerer Summon Question


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#1 Brohnnitho

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:42 AM

Hello everyone

 

so i read the text on the Sorcerer's Summoning ability, am in the onlyone who think its an extremely weak and / or wrongly named ability, the ability's text says the following....

 

Summon (Special Abilty) : Choose a minion monster within 3 spaces of this monster. Place that minion monster in an empty space adjacent to this monster.

 

for me it sounds more like , you are able to teleport a minion monster 2 spaces closer to the monster using the summon ability, and if thats the case, shouldnt it be called "Blink" or "Teleport" instead ? (i might be missing something here though, so please correct me if im reading the text wrong)

 

and also, it seems abit weak to use 1 of the monsters actions on moving another minion monster 2 spaces....



#2 Sixko

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:45 AM

Well, it could be up to 4 spaces that you move the minion.

Seems quite situational to me.



#3 BentoSan

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:46 AM

Its not such a terrible ability, its better to have the ability than to not have the ability. It could be useful for instance to bring that large monster just a bit closer to be able to provide a block to a hero. In the right situation this would be moving a large monster like a shadow dragon 6 spaces forward of his original position. Obviously doe not work any where near as well on small monsters.

 

You are able to not just teleport the minion monster 2 spaces forward, you can move it from 2 spaces behind the sorcerer to 1 space in front  of the sorcerer. Thats 4 spaces it has moved forward, equal to the move action of a lot of monsters.

 

Very situational indeed, but it could also speed up monsters that you may need to get somewhere to complete a quest.


Edited by BentoSan, 25 April 2014 - 03:47 AM.


#4 Sixko

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:51 AM

Just noticed that both the master and minion sorcerers have that ability.

Extra move options is never a bad thing, to bad you cant use it to move master monsters though.



#5 Kunzite

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

Trust me, two movement can make or brake a game.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

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#6 BentoSan

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:44 AM

Trust me, two movement can make or brake a game.

So totally true, this game has come down to the wire to me on sooo many different occasions, small things like this definitely can make the difference between winning and losing a game.

 

Sorcerers also have pretty decent damage output, which makes them a good choice even without the summon ability.


Edited by BentoSan, 25 April 2014 - 07:45 AM.

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#7 Radish

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:23 AM

This is the type of ability that will be useless most of the time until that one moment it wins a campaign.

 

Sorcery 3 alone is good enough so they look fine to me.


Edited by Radish, 25 April 2014 - 08:24 AM.


#8 Ringskipper

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:50 AM

I think "Summon" is aptly named.

 

And the ability is actually pretty great. Especially since it can be from any monster group... a reinforced monster can get closer to the heroes and attack quicker, etc.

 

IMO, Sorcerers are one of the best monster groups. Their Sorcery is really high (even in Act I), and their updated ability Death Wish is just insane, making the master basically immortal.



#9 amoshias

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:37 AM

I feel like - and please don't take offense at this, Broh - but you've got to play the game a bit more. Summon is a ridiculously powerful ability. It's the only reason to play Sorcerers; their attack/defense stats are nothing exciting at all, but Summon wins games.

 

In many adventures, the Overlord needs to move monsters from one place to another - running away from the heroes with objective tokens, or stuff like that. In any adventure like that, each Sorcerer, if played well, can move your runners an additional four spaces. Your Sorc group can easily provide an additional 10 movement to your runner - as much as 16 under perfect conditions. In other scenarios, you might want to teleport monsters who start far away into the fight as quickly as possible.

 

Not only that, but - like Kobolds - sorcerers are really easy to discount if you don't understand them. Which means you get to see the heroes jaws drops as you scoop that Goblin Archer with the last objective token far out of their reach, or as you drop a Shadow Dragon right in their midst...



#10 rugal

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:47 PM

the trouble is about the "minion" word. Except for some situationnal big monster, it's usually useless



#11 Kunzite

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 10:21 PM

"minion" is most of your monsters though. If it was masters or LT then it might be busted.

 

But "summon" becomes the all creature's "flock" that the harpies have. Granted, not as good, but the group type isn't limited.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

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#12 rugal

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:58 AM

flock is better for one action, up to 4 monsters gains 2 spaces. Summon can only move a minor monster (so no LT :() and to move 4 monsters, 4 of them will lost an action. Don't see the point



#13 Steve-O

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:26 AM

flock is better for one action, up to 4 monsters gains 2 spaces. Summon can only move a minor monster (so no LT :() and to move 4 monsters, 4 of them will lost an action. Don't see the point

 

Flock works on up to 4 Harpies, which is great if you've got a full monster group of harpies on the board.  However, if some of the harpies are defeated, the ability loses traction really fast.

 

Summon only works on minions, and only one at a time, but it works on any minion. I'm not saying it's an awesome ability, but it can be useful in certain situations. They can't all be winners.

 

You act like the inability to move a master/LT with Summon is what kills it, but honestly, I don't think it would that much better even if you could.


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#14 rugal

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:44 PM

Imagine moving a Valyndra agent into battle, making her a big attack, and the other monster moves her back. That would be so awesome. Like it is, I don't see any usefullness, and I never saw, for having played them a lot.



#15 BentoSan

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 03:46 PM

There is more to quests than killing people, like several quests where you need to get objective tokens off a map using goblins... obviously summon is useful in this instance. Especially when you can chain summon a monster from one sorcerer to the other.

 

There is more to this game than killing heroes


Edited by BentoSan, 26 April 2014 - 03:50 PM.


#16 Kunzite

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:24 AM

 

Flock works on up to 4 Harpies, which is great if you've got a full monster group of harpies on the board.  However, if some of the harpies are defeated, the ability loses traction really fast.

 

Summon only works on minions, and only one at a time, but it works on any minion. I'm not saying it's an awesome ability, but it can be useful in certain situations. They can't all be winners.

 

You act like the inability to move a master/LT with Summon is what kills it, but honestly, I don't think it would that much better even if you could.

 

 

Steve-o got to it before me. The idea of flock is it is ONLY harpies. But Summon can target ANY minion monster. To make it so it isn't broken powerful, they had to down size the effectiveness since it targets ANY minion, and one. 

 

And it kind of bothers me people discount a card because they feel the ability is not worth it. All beasties have a chance in the lime light. I feel it is much like magic:the gathering. Pro players will say "this card is bad" when in reality, that card can be really good if in the right deck. Monsters, even razerwings and Lava Beatles, can have their usefulness at some point (I have knocked out two heroes with razerwings on an opening turn. And though I have not used Lava Beatles I can see where they might be useful in SoN because of close quarters encounters).

 

So, try it out. If you don't like it, it isn't that the monster isn't good it's just he's not your play style. Personally, Sorcerers are one of my favorites and my heroes grimous every time I pull them out.


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"Bide your time and hold out hope."

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#17 Steve-O

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:31 AM

Imagine moving a Valyndra agent into battle, making her a big attack, and the other monster moves her back. That would be so awesome. Like it is, I don't see any usefullness, and I never saw, for having played them a lot.


Imagine moving a minion Shadow Dragon into battle, making its bag attack, and the other monster moves it back. It may not be Valyndra, but it's not exactly a crap move either.

Honestly, you say you play with sorcerers a lot, but the fact that you can't recognize the value in moving a minion monster while proclaiming that it would be awesome if only you could move Valyndra tells me that you haven't really tried to apply the ability in practice. Maybe you put the sorcerers on the board, but I'm guessing you use them for their other stats and generally ignore Summon.
 

Personally, Sorcerers are one of my favorites and my heroes grimous every time I pull them out.


Knowing which monsters your hero players hate is the first step toward true Overlord domination =)

Edited by Steve-O, 27 April 2014 - 08:34 AM.

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#18 rugal

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:05 PM

 

Imagine moving a Valyndra agent into battle, making her a big attack, and the other monster moves her back. That would be so awesome. Like it is, I don't see any usefullness, and I never saw, for having played them a lot.


Imagine moving a minion Shadow Dragon into battle, making its bag attack, and the other monster moves it back. It may not be Valyndra, but it's not exactly a crap move either.

Honestly, you say you play with sorcerers a lot, but the fact that you can't recognize the value in moving a minion monster while proclaiming that it would be awesome if only you could move Valyndra tells me that you haven't really tried to apply the ability in practice. Maybe you put the sorcerers on the board, but I'm guessing you use them for their other stats and generally ignore Summon.

I oftenly play with 3 heroes (if not ever), so I have never access to big minion monsters, and moving some small ones haven't any use in this case.






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