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#21 The Professor

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:06 AM

ObsessiveGamer,

 

     Now I see your question even more clearly.  As the Spell obviates the need to roll, that wouold serve as an action in lieu of rolling the dice.  There are times in which you roll the dice and then decide...wow, I didn't complete a Task, but I have this neat Spell which can obliterate a monster.  I don't think that in the spirit of the game.  Either roll OR use the Spell (before you roll).

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#22 ObsessiveGamer

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:54 PM

I just tried another 8-investigator game against the Arkham Nights Yog-Sothoth, and had results similar to my post #6 here: http://community.fan...er-yog-sothoth/

 

I'd love to know if FFG meant for him to be so difficult against higher numbers of investigators.  It's the only Ancient One that, in my opinion, punishes you for playing with more people.  I know he's a bonus Ancient One to begin with, but it might be more fair for his ability to say, "the investigators as a group must discard [number of investigators] trophies, or as many investigators as you are trophies short are devoured."  I feel that this would make the game more feasible for higher numbers of investigators as opposed to the domino effect from hell that happens as things currently stand.


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#23 liran218

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:19 PM

Hey,

 

I've got 2 questions:

 

1. The first question's regarding cards that say "After rolling, discard to defeat 1 monster". If I roll and fails the task, can I use this card to defeat a monster and consider the roll a success?

 

2. Regarding Public Lavatory card; The card reads "When a player draws this card, place 1 monster in each monster task belows". If this card is put into play during setup, does it mean I shouldn't place any monster tokens on it?

 

Thanks. :-)



#24 The Professor

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 05:15 AM

liran218,

 

     The #2 on your list is interesting, as I've always played it, as advertised.  If it's drawn during set-up or throughout the game, I place two monsters on the card.  I'm curious if they rule it another way.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#25 alabaster White

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:39 PM

I'm a bit confused about the use of the blessed die. The instructions seem to contradict itself. On one hand it says that you add the white die to your dice pool until you either use it in on a task, discard it on a failed roll or end your turn.  However, on the other hand it says that you use it for each of your adventures.  So I'm a bit confused as to whether we keep it till we use it or do we keep it and use it as long as the investigator is blessed? Hopefully someone can help me with this.



#26 xfoley8

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:52 PM

You definitely get to use the blessed die for each adventure until you lose your blessing by failing an adventure, getting cursed, etc.  It just functions like any other die- once you use it to complete a task or discard it from failure to complete a task, it's no longer in your pool for that turn.



#27 klaymen_sk

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:57 PM

Maybe it is just a protection against some possible rules lawyering, like using your blessed die on a task and then using it again and again in the same adventure.

"To each of us falls a task. And all the Emperor requires of us Guardsmen is that we stand in line, and we die fighting. It is what we do best: we die standing."

-General Sturnn, Cadian 412th regiment


#28 DreDrew82

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:00 PM

New player here. Love the game. Would someone please help with a question? Let's say a card has a terror effect to get rid of all terror dice. Can you focus a die to keep it, or does it need to be discarded due to the terror effect? Which step comes first?

Also, it looks like this page is for a second FAQ. Can someone point me to the first?

Thanks!!!
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#29 Julia

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:03 PM

You can focus dice after failing to complete a task (core rules, pag 10, under Focusing) while checking for terror effects happens before (just immediately before discarding dice due to a failed roll).

 

The general order:

 

- you trigger the terror effects

- you discard one die

- you focus / assist

 

the previous edition of the FAQ can be downloaded from the support page for Elder Sign

 

Please (don't take this as rude, it's not the intention): post general questions not on this thread. I should go through all the questions when assembling the FAQ entry list, and "normal" questions woudl just dilute FAQ questions, with the risk something could slip from my attention. Thanks :)


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#30 DreDrew82

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 03:47 PM

Thank you for answering my questions.  Much appreciated.  

 

At the risk of asking a normal question:  

 

Scenario:

 

The adventure card states that the terror effect is to automatically fail the adventure.

I roll the dice.  I can not complete any tasks and I have a terror die showing.  If I play a spell and secure that terror die, does the terror effect still go off?  Or has the terror die now been removed from the pool - preventing the terror effect from occurring?

 

As a new gamer, the order in which events occur is very confusing and the guide does not offer much clarity.


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#31 ObsessiveGamer

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 01:12 AM

As a new gamer, the order in which events occur is very confusing and the guide does not offer much clarity.

 

Welcome to Elder Sign, DreDrew82.  :)


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#32 The Professor

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:34 PM

Drew,

 

     Unless the Investigator utilizes a Clue token, which in effect means that the roll IS NOT over, the Terror Effect...well, takes effect and then you proceed.  In essence, given the constraints of your description, I can't think (though others might) of a time in which you'll ever be able to hold a Terror die on an Adventure card with a Terror Effect.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#33 xodarap

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:09 PM

Hi folks,

I was asked by FFG to start collecting questions for an upcoming Elder Sign FAQ project. So, if during your games you find something obscure that you think requires clarification or some situations occurred that are not covered by the revised rulebook or the latest FAQ release, please post your questions here. We could try to find a proper solution together (sometimes rules are nifty, but reasoning together helps getting all the nuances; or helps understanding better the problem) and then, if they are still obscure, I'll report them to the attention of FFG.

Also, if you received official clarifications via email, please post questions and answer here as well, so that everything can be included in the very same document.

Thanks a lot for your help :) The game is awesome, and with your help will be even better :)

JULIA


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#34 xodarap

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:26 PM

I appologize again but for some reason this site keeps the quote but deletes the reply. *sigh*

First off no I don't need any rules clarifications for Elder Sign. It's one of my favorite games, We've played it many times with non-gamers and there have been questions (easily answered by the basic rules.) but no issues. I find the rules tight, logical, and easily and quickly taught. However by the same token if I come up with an addendum to "See Spot Run." I'll letcha' know.

The main reason for my reply is what you've said about rules and how they apply to games: "rules are nifty, but reasoning together helps getting all the nuances; or helps understanding better the problem" (quotes mine)

I ask this because you seem to be some kind of "community leader" (sorry don't know what else to call it....) here and I want to make sure that your quote is NOT how FFG feels about games. To me rules are necessary, not nifty. They are the the end of the argument. The final word. If your final word is "maybe?" then what are you really saying and what authority are you saying with? When I debate rules I'm using those rules as my authority. What can I do if I just walk into a bunch of house rules that just exist because the owner of the game says so? I'm not a big fan of baseless authority....

It's important because the topic is one of my major complaints about game companies is releasing poorly balanced unfinished product. There really is only one answer to this problem: Doing the math right on the first go and not expecting the consumers to do your job for you. That's why I comment here. With Elder Sign FFG has BEEN the example. This game is clear. This game was made well.

Actually let me try to make my point better by asking you two questions: 1. Do YOU personally have rules clarification issues with Elder Sign? 2. Do you or do you not believe that FFG did a great job with the rules, design, and balance of Elder Sign?

Yeah, that's better!
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#35 xodarap

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:46 PM

In response to DreDrew82 and "The Professor":


DreDrew82: "At the risk of asking a normal question: The adventure card states that the terror effect is to automatically fail the adventure.

I roll the dice. I can not complete any tasks and I have a terror die showing. If I play a spell and secure that terror die, does the terror effect still go off? Or has the terror die now been removed from the pool - preventing the terror effect from occurring?"

As a new gamer, the order in which events occur is very confusing and the guide does not offer much clarity." END QUOTE.

First, I found it hard to believe that this wasn't answered yet with anything but a snarky "Welcome to Elder Sign Drew." This isn't Street Fighter idiot! Someone is asking a real question! Seriously why post if you offer nothing, I know some of you practically LIVE here but really....

The Professor: "Drew, Unless the Investigator utilizes a Clue token, which in effect means that the roll IS NOT over, the Terror Effect...well, takes effect and then you proceed. In essence, given the constraints of your description, I can't think (though others might) of a time in which you'll ever be able to hold a Terror die on an Adventure card with a Terror Effect." (again, QUOTES MINE.)

Then imagine my surprise when you finally get an answer.....and it's completely WRONG! Personally I was surprised that someone with the generally educated monicker of "The Professor" with one thousand two hundred and sixty five posts (maybe they have nothing to do with Elder Sign?) would get that so totally wrong but....

*sigh* It even says BOLDLY in the basic rules that spell effects can trigger before you lose a die and that terror effects trigger right AFTER you lose a die so yes, spells CAN be used to dodge terror effects. It's part of their purpose I believe.
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#36 Julia

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:09 AM

Actually let me try to make my point better by asking you two questions: 1. Do YOU personally have rules clarification issues with Elder Sign? 2. Do you or do you not believe that FFG did a great job with the rules, design, and balance of Elder Sign?

Yeah, that's better!

 

I'm not here to debate my personal view of the rules, but to collect questions. When I said "rules are nifty", that's objective: if rules were so streamlined and cleared, nobody would have kept on asking the same questions over and over and over since the game had been released. So that, focusing on finding about what people get confused on, is one of the main aim of the FAQ project.

 

If there were no need for a new FAQ, then nobody would have answered the call, the thread would have gone deserted, and so on. But we got questions.

 

Additionally, an FAQ document shouldn't only address "obscure" points in the rulebook, but also help guiding players of all levels (from the rules lawyers to the occasional gamers) in understanding better what happens. For instance, lots of people over the BGG argued for ages about the "when I kill a monster locking a die, may I add that die to my dice pool befor the end of my Resolution Phase or not?". I think rules are clear, but people keep on arguing about this, so that having an FAQ entry with this question stated would help undoubtably these players.

 

And in any case, having an updated FAQ document won't hurt anyone.

 

 

EDIT: and please, do not flame this thread.


Edited by Julia, 28 June 2014 - 02:20 AM.

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#37 The Professor

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 04:53 AM

xodarap,

 

     At the risk of goading you into a greater fury than we've witnessed already with your torrent of posts during the past 12 hours,  please tell me, Drew, and everyone else how you would manage to secure a Terror die via Spell on an Adventure card with Terror Effects. given the changes to Spells over the past few years.  Bottom line: It's not so cut-and-dry as you make it sound, and no, I've never used a Spell to "dodge Terror Effects" in my games.   Please enlighten us.

 

Cheers,

Joe


Edited by The Professor, 24 June 2014 - 04:59 AM.

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#38 Julia

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 05:30 AM

Joe,

 

I think the point is that spells are played immediately after rolling, while terror effects are checked only when you fail to complete a task. According to this structure, the spell enters play before, so that actually it should be a legal move.

 

Still, it's a little odd: you secure a die on a spell to avoid a terror effect that should be triggered only after failing the task, so, in some sort, you check to see if you pass or not, you know that you'd fail and then you secure the die to avoid extra bad stuff.


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#39 The Professor

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:09 AM

Julia,

 

     Thanks ~ it's one of the failings of the original rules in my opinion.  The Adventure cards, by-and-large are quite straightforward (dare I say easy), so the Terror Effects should be something feared, not "dodged" by a Spell (which if memory serves is cast in its original incarnation (sorry about the pun) before you even roll).  Anyway, I appreciate your post...as always.

 

Ciao,

Joe


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#40 Julia

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:13 PM

-----the appearance of gates / discarding of trophies / devouring of investigators / addition of doom tokens of the Arkham Nights Yog-Sothoth

Obsessive Gamer,

 

I thought for awhile about this one, and I think maybe I can help.

 

Point is that devoured investigators don't have replacement entering the game until their next turn. This means that actually there is no way for the the gate icons to have devourings chaining: the worst that can happen is that the whole party is devoured. This leaves clearly two questions:

 

a) pag. 19 of the revised rulebook reads "the game ends when all investigators are devoured", but it's not clear whether this implies an instant devouring of all the members of the party, or that all investigators are devoured and there are no replacement investigator to substitute them

 

b) even with no devourings chaining, is the AO fairly balanced? A large party is certainly penalized in this situation, while a smaller party (1 or 2 investigators) can survive the effect without suffering too much

 

These points I think are worth discussion, but I hope I was able to answer to your "timing" question


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