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No disintegrations! (Tips for flying Fett)


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#21 Hrathen

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:33 AM

What one should also take into account is that the Fettigator's movement options make it mostly impossible for the opponent to guess where Boba will be after his next movement, so it's much harder to use bombs against him or deny him actions, i.e. the Fettigator reduces the effectiveness of control lists and ships that rely on high agility like Interceptors.

In addition to that there's the psychological effect when you just slap Boba's maneuver dial on the table without really bothering to carefully select this or that maneuver.

You might not like the Fettigator or you might fly him in a way that doesn't make full use of his ability but saying that Boba's pilot skill is useless is just not true.

You are correct.  Boba Fett is not useless and there are things Fettigator can do that might be useful in the game.  It just runs out they aren't that great.  I think Fett would gain a ton more benefit from a gunner, a recon spec, or even a rebel captive than a navigator.

 

I fly Fett all the time 'cause I like Boba, I'm just not that impressed with the Fettigator.


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#22 WonderWAAAGH

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:35 AM

What one should also take into account is that the Fettigator's movement options make it mostly impossible for the opponent to guess where Boba will be after his next movement, so it's much harder to use bombs against him or deny him actions, i.e. the Fettigator reduces the effectiveness of control lists and ships that rely on high agility like Interceptors.
In addition to that there's the psychological effect when you just slap Boba's maneuver dial on the table without really bothering to carefully select this or that maneuver.
You might not like the Fettigator or you might fly him in a way that doesn't make full use of his ability but saying that Boba's pilot skill is useless is just not true.


The only way to fly him and get any use out of his ability is if you're still new to the game and prone to making mistakes when it comes to selecting maneuvers. For those of us with a little skill or experience, however, knowing exactly where we want to move is no great challenge. Good positioning trumps psychology any day.
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#23 Aminar

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:37 AM

What one should also take into account is that the Fettigator's movement options make it mostly impossible for the opponent to guess where Boba will be after his next movement, so it's much harder to use bombs against him or deny him actions, i.e. the Fettigator reduces the effectiveness of control lists and ships that rely on high agility like Interceptors.
In addition to that there's the psychological effect when you just slap Boba's maneuver dial on the table without really bothering to carefully select this or that maneuver.
You might not like the Fettigator or you might fly him in a way that doesn't make full use of his ability but saying that Boba's pilot skill is useless is just not true.


The only way to fly him and get any use out of his ability is if you're still new to the game and prone to making mistakes when it comes to selecting maneuvers. For those of us with a little skill or experience, however, knowing exactly where we want to move is no great challenge. Good positioning trumps psychology any day.
Right up until that good psoitioning is psychological as well. Outpredict your opponent and you're two steps ahead. They're rattled and you're winning.

#24 Siddhi

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:46 AM

Sorry, but that is just nonsense that Fett's ability only works for noobs.

With Fett you have 2 choices: either you see his ability as something that only might come in handy from time to time, fly him like any other ship and only use his ability if you really need to, which is the worst way to fly Fett - or you make full use of his ability and use it all the time to make his movements unpredictable and get the most out of his rear firing arc. This especially applies to the combination with Navigator and maybe even an additional Engine Upgrade and/or Expert Handling.

 

There is no other pilot in the game that has so much freedom regarding movement and I'd say FFG chose a really cool pilot skill for one fo the most iconic Star Wars characters, you just have to get how to make use of it. If you can't figure that out or just don't like him that's not the same as the pilot being useless or too expensive like e.g. Maarek Stele. I see a lot of people making mistakes with flying Firesprays or especially Fett, e.g. doing multiple K-turns with a ship that can be flown without ever doing a single one of them while still being able to shoot as often as they want or more or less disabling the rear firing arc by putting a HLC or Autoblaster on it. - end of rant -



#25 Duraham

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:03 AM

I completely disagree. In a vacuum, yes Boba's ability isnt that bad. Once you put in other ships and asteroids, his available maneuver choices is so limited there is no opportunity to use his effect whatsoever, especially once you take into consideration that if you land on an asteroid you cannot make an attack, nevermind that if you overlap other ships you lose your actions, and also nevermind that the bank maneuvers on the Firespray are actually rather similar, in terms of the amount of area each maneuver of different speeds actually overlap when increasing or decreasing the speed by 1

To further add on to this problem, the Firespray is a large ship, so if you are going through the center of the map, the maneuver choices for your subsequent turns become very limited, whilst if you were to engage from the sides of the map, obviously you would turn in and not outwards. In both cases, application of Boba's effect is once again, extremely limited and highly situational, to the point of being borderline irrational

If Boba's ability applied for Turns instead of Banks, it would be a lot more useful, although not to the extent of being viable competitively speaking. If you want to make it really something that would be powerful in competitions but not broken, I'd say make his effect "when you reveal your maneuver dial, you may change your maneuver to any other maneuver of the same difficulty" 


Edited by Duraham, 23 April 2014 - 02:11 AM.


#26 Siddhi

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:48 AM

I admit that I was mainly talking about the combination of Boba with Navigator and that using this crew upgrade makes a huge difference to a naked Boba. Apparently your gaming experience with Boba was wholly different to mine too. So far I didn't have the problem of constantly crashing into asteroids or not being able to choose sensible maneuver alternatives.

I like to fly Boba with Navigator, Engine Upgrade or Expert Handling and Push the limit. If you're unsure about Boba I'd suggest to just give that combination a try while focusing on using Navigator and/or Boba's ability as often as possible. It's not only great fun but can also be highly effective and worth every point. I don't even see the large base as a disadvantage since it makes the ship faster.



#27 Duraham

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:00 AM

http://community.fan...e-practice-run/

I believe I speak with some experience regarding the matter; I have more than 1 year worth of flying the Firespray, and whilst I do not always field Boba Fett nor the Firespray, I do play Xwing every weekend since then. Out of all these hours of gameplay, there is only exactly 1 instance in 1 match where I actually used Boba's ability as intended. Even when I use the Fettigator, every time I reveal my maneuver dial, there's no need to change it because it is already the maneuver that I want, and also the maneuver I consider to be the best under that circumstance even after ships on the board has moved and/or not moved yet.

There are many problems with the Firespray, none of which Boba's ability really addresses. Mainly, you will realize that as you are circling around your target, the blind spots are always pointed towards the turning point of your maneuvering, hence you would find it very very difficult to point yourself at the target. Experthandling solves this issue directly, and Engine Upgrade to a lesser extent, but you do not get a stress token. Furthermore, the presence of asteroids  severely limits the available useable maneuver routes your large ship can take, even if you include the possibility of flying through asteroids. Add in other ships that are trying to kill you, and it gets a lot worse

Moreover,

http://community.fan...onship-results/
http://community.fan...s/#entry1006907

Here, you can see the store championship winning lists across the entire world, spanning hundreds of players on a global scale. Out of all these hundreds of lists, Boba Fett did not appear even once. Not even once. If Boba's effect is even marginally of any use, wouldnt at least 1 person attempt to bring it to a tournament, out of all the hundreds of players, even after considering repeat players who are there simply to have a fun time and play less viable lists? I dont think your argument of "people don't know how to use him properly" holds any water here, when we consider the sheer amount of players as well as the skill level of the top players in their respective regions


My message is simple. Boba's ability is useless. You can still use him for his stats, which are honestly not that bad for the point cost, and Boba is pretty much the only option left if you are already using Kath and need another Firespray with an EPT slot.


Edited by Duraham, 23 April 2014 - 03:40 AM.

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#28 Elkerlyc

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:44 AM

Out of all these hundreds of lists, Boba Fett did not appear even once. Not even once. If Boba's effect is even marginally of any use, wouldnt at least 1 person attempt to bring it to a tournament, out of all the hundreds of players, even after considering repeat players who are there simply to have a fun time and play less viable lists?

 

Basically you pay 1 point more for Boba over Kath for an even less useful ability but +1PS.

 

Sounds like a challenge. :D

(I do think Kath is 'better for the points' . A bit of a shame; Boba Fett should be more useful in-game IMO)


Edited by Elkerlyc, 23 April 2014 - 03:45 AM.

The scissor is nicely balanced but the paper is OP said the stone.


#29 Duraham

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:50 AM

Boba should have switched effects with Kath or Krassis

or even Bounty Hunter. At least if Boba Fett has no effects printed on him, I'd be all like "wow this guy really is a badass, no effects and he's the highest PS Firespray pilot in the game"



#30 WonderWAAAGH

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:34 AM

http://community.fan...e-practice-run/
I believe I speak with some experience regarding the matter; I have more than 1 year worth of flying the Firespray, and whilst I do not always field Boba Fett nor the Firespray, I do play Xwing every weekend since then. Out of all these hours of gameplay, there is only exactly 1 instance in 1 match where I actually used Boba's ability as intended. Even when I use the Fettigator, every time I reveal my maneuver dial, there's no need to change it because it is already the maneuver that I want, and also the maneuver I consider to be the best under that circumstance even after ships on the board has moved and/or not moved yet.
There are many problems with the Firespray, none of which Boba's ability really addresses. Mainly, you will realize that as you are circling around your target, the blind spots are always pointed towards the turning point of your maneuvering, hence you would find it very very difficult to point yourself at the target. Experthandling solves this issue directly, and Engine Upgrade to a lesser extent, but you do not get a stress token. Furthermore, the presence of asteroids  severely limits the available useable maneuver routes your large ship can take, even if you include the possibility of flying through asteroids. Add in other ships that are trying to kill you, and it gets a lot worse
Moreover,http://community.fan...onship-results/http://community.fan...s/#entry1006907
Here, you can see the store championship winning lists across the entire world, spanning hundreds of players on a global scale. Out of all these hundreds of lists, Boba Fett did not appear even once. Not even once. If Boba's effect is even marginally of any use, wouldnt at least 1 person attempt to bring it to a tournament, out of all the hundreds of players, even after considering repeat players who are there simply to have a fun time and play less viable lists? I dont think your argument of "people don't know how to use him properly" holds any water here, when we consider the sheer amount of players as well as the skill level of the top players in their respective regions
My message is simple. Boba's ability is useless. You can still use him for his stats, which are honestly not that bad for the point cost, and Boba is pretty much the only option left if you are already using Kath and need another Firespray with an EPT slot.


I was going to throw in my two cents, but I don't think you left anything for me to say.

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#31 Siddhi

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:57 AM

I think we can only agree to disagree about Boba. That he doesn't appear in competitive lists doesn't mean that Boba is a bad pilot, it only means that he's not suitable for every opponent or too expensive for a competitive list. That also applies e.g. to Jan Ors, Tycho Celchu or Captain Kagi and I wouldn't say those are useless pilots just because they almost never appear in tournament lists or would you?

I have also been playing X-Wing for more than a year now so our experience is comparable but even so we can come to different conclusions obviously. If you're so good at reading your opponents and planning maneuvers or your opponents are so bad at this that you always choose the right maneuver for Boba right away that's one thing. If in addition to that you choose not to make use of Boba's ability while choosing maneuvers and combine it with Navigator then I'm inclined to agree that Boba's ability is useless - for you.

As I've written before  - everybody else who is unsure about Boba should just give it a try and come to his own conclusions. I'll leave it at that.


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#32 Klutz

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:25 AM

I'm looking to purchase a Slave-I and try out the following list soon, should it fare well?

I'll probably fly it with Carnor Jax first, as I don't own the TIE Interceptor expansion yet... Soon... soon...

 

 

Kath Scarlet (38)
Expert Handling (2)
Gunner (5)

Royal Guard Pilot (22)
Push the Limit (3)

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder


Edited by Klutz, 23 April 2014 - 08:26 AM.


#33 Zoccola

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:44 AM

Honestly, I find Boba Fett to be a good pilot. As good as Kath. Her ability is better IF it happens, but thats a big if. I have been playing Xwing since last May, and I used the Fettigator almost exclusively for a few months and I found that the ability to change direction and speed of banks is very good. While I can usually predict where my opponent is going to move, I am able to admit that I am not 100% accurate, Im maybe right 60-70% of the time. People surprise you. Kturns out of no where. Boosting an maneuvering where you didnt think theyd go. Fettigator fixes that.

 

As for asteroids being in the way, you do realize that you are responsible for placing 1/2 of the asteroids in the game? Place 1 on a corner and the other 2 in an equilateral triangle from it. That opens the table up a lot. Especially if your opponent placed the first asteroid on your side. Imho its always best to place asteroids where they are best for you, rather than a nuisance for your opponent.

 

As for Boba Fett not being used in tournaments? Well one explanation is that the internet, and gaming forums, are festering pools of group think. Net lists exacerbate this. Everyone tries to use the list that one the last tournament. And then there are the vocal community members with a bit of online clout that blast a ship, and suddenly its reviled publicly. And then not used because the internet said it sucked. Finally the fact that it was not used in tournaments, due in part to the internet saying it sucked, is then used as a reinforcing argument that it sucks. :)

 

You know why Boba Fett isnt used in tournaments? Because the current meta values quantity over quality. Why pay 39 points for PS and a situational ability when I can pay 33 points for the same ship a be half an academy tie ahead? When the meta rebalances to valuing higher PS pilots, then Boba will be a better bet. As you say there are too many ships blocking him now, well when people start flying PS4 swarms vs PS1 ones, thats a ship or two less on the table. And then there will be those that fly the PS6+ squads to out shoot the PS4 squads, and they will have even less ships. Which means less stuff to block Fett with. The Meta is constantly changing and wave four is a portent of things to come.


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#34 Siddhi

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:43 AM

Very well put Zoccola - thanks for the covering fire! :)

 

@Duraham: Sorry to say it so bluntly and there's no offence meant but what you wrote just seems comparable to me to owning a Ferrari but only ever using it to drop your kids off at school while never doing more than 40. And then saying it's a bad and too expensive car while trying to prove your point by pointing out that it has never ever been used in a demolition derby. This just seems to me to be a lack of understanding of what it was designed for.

I think there's a hugely different approach between the two of us to how to fly Boba / the Fettigator and that leads to contrary conclusions.

 

But anyway - the arguments are all out on the table so everybody can make of that what he thinks best and thank you all for the enjoyable discussion.


Edited by Siddhi, 23 April 2014 - 09:45 AM.


#35 Radzap

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:33 PM

Boba is so bad I consider a slap in the face to any Fett fans. He should have had an offensive ability. Instead he gets some weedy, "whoa, tricked ya!" move. What he really should have gotten was an ability that boosts the effectiveness of Ion Cannons. It would make sense since he's the baddest BH in the galaxy. 


Imperial Ships:  5 Tie Fighters -- 5 Tie Interceptors -- 1 Tie Advanced -- 1 Tie Bomber -- 1 Firespray-31 -- 1 Lamba-Class Shuttle

Rebel Scum: 3 X-Wing Fighters -- 1 Y-Wing Fighter -- 1 B-Wing Fighter -- 1 A-Wing Fighter -- HWK-290 -- 1 YT-1300


#36 Buhallin

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:46 PM

@Duraham: Sorry to say it so bluntly and there's no offence meant but what you wrote just seems comparable to me to owning a Ferrari but only ever using it to drop your kids off at school while never doing more than 40.

Actually, it's more like owning a Ferrari and still respecting the speed limits.

 

Fettigator can choose any of 6 possible banks.  Fine.  The idea that your opponent somehow can't react to that is ludicrous.  THAT bank lands you on an asteroid, and THAT bank puts you facing right into the corner of the board, and THESE TWO banks will land on your own ship because it's ionized and you've got a big base.  Guess what?  I know where you're going.

 

And that's the problem.  In most real situations, you don't actually have all those choices.  It'll narrow down to "I reveal a 2 bank, so I'll change it to... uhm....  hm.  Well, damn, guess I'll just stick with the 2 bank because everything else will overlap anyway, so I might as well go where I intended to in the first place."

 

Can you drive your Ferrari 120 in the school zone?  Sure.  Doesn't make it a good idea, or a good choice for taking the kids to school.


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#37 Buhallin

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:50 PM

Boba is so bad I consider a slap in the face to any Fett fans.

Meh.  Fett's such a loser his fans deserve a slap in the face :D

 

Does nothing but follow Solo and call Vader (instead of the entire Imperial fleet), miss a bunch of shots, play FedEx boy, stand around in Jabba's throne room looking cool, tries to take a guy with a lightsaber using A ROPE, and then screams like a little girl after a blind guy with a stick takes him out by accident.

 

The fandom that grew up around such an incompetent character is one of the most baffling things in all of SF/F.  Honestly, his ability is perfectly appropriate for such a useless schlub.



#38 Siddhi

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

@Buhallin: So you're telling me that most of the time the Fettigator can't make any use of the 6 possible positions where he could end up? I find that highly unlikely - or should I say.....ludicrous? :)

Usually you wouldn't fly him in a cluster with the rest of your ships since that just doesn't make any sense for this combination and there's only 6 asteroids in play.

If you also equip him with an Engine Upgrade that makes 18 (!) possible positions to choose from. With Expert Handling it's a similar situation. Is there any other ship or pilot in the game that can do that and fly circles around the opponent while blasting ships fore and aft?

 

To be honest I'm starting to get the impression that some people here are determined to find Boba useless regardless of contrary facts. Well, I've added my two cents and this discussion doesn't seem to evolve any further so I'm outta here.



#39 Buhallin

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:10 PM

@Buhallin: So you're telling me that most of the time the Fettigator can't make any use of the 6 possible positions where he could end up? I find that highly unlikely - or should I say.....ludicrous? :)

 

I'm pretty sure he can manage to make use of 1, which is the one I choose on my dial when I'm flying Krassis.

 

<shrug>  I guess it's possible you've found the key that pretty much every single other competitive player of the game has missed, and you've got the answer to rolling over anyone who gets in your way thanks to Fett.  Color me skeptical, but at the very least you're a long way from "contrary facts".  What you have are assertions in a vacuum that provide zero context.  Do you keep Fett as far away as possible and accept R3 shots every other turn?  Do your opponents run 3-ship Rebels with a high-value HWK that stays out of range, or TIE swarms?  Do people in your play area tend to place asteroids well out of the way so they're rarely a problem, or cluster them in the middle and make you fly through them?

 

You're making a lot of sounds-great-on-paper arguments that the vast majority of players have watched evaporate in live play.  Everyone else's experience hasn't matched up to the theorycrafting.  Declaring your experience as fact doesn't make it so.



#40 WonderWAAAGH

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:24 PM

Boba is so bad I consider a slap in the face to any Fett fans.

Meh.  Fett's such a loser his fans deserve a slap in the face :D
 
Does nothing but follow Solo and call Vader (instead of the entire Imperial fleet), miss a bunch of shots, play FedEx boy, stand around in Jabba's throne room looking cool, tries to take a guy with a lightsaber using A ROPE, and then screams like a little girl after a blind guy with a stick takes him out by accident.
 
The fandom that grew up around such an incompetent character is one of the most baffling things in all of SF/F.  Honestly, his ability is perfectly appropriate for such a useless schlub.

From what I recall, Fett had a cult following before he even hit the screen. Besides, if his popularity can survive the travesty that was the Christmas Special, there's no reason to hold that whole Sarlacc incident against him.
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