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How do other people handle loot?


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#21 Mikmaxs

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:15 PM

I have two anecdotes related to this topic:

One, I play an Arbite very closely based off of a certain Police Officer in the Dresden Files series. (It's fun.) At any given moment, unless trying to be subtle, she'll be armed with...

A Mesh Combat Cloak (I'm really not sure what these look like, so we as a group decided it was a bit like a wet-suit design,) beneath Arbite Robes, with a Cameoline Cloak draped over the back. (The cloak is optional.)

Brass Knuckles either in a pocket or on hand.

A knife on her belt. 

A shotgun over her back.

A sword at a hilt on her belt.

A Shock Staff, carried and used as a normal walking staff when not fighting.

A Stub Automatic in a shoulder-holster

And, a Compact Stub Revolver in a strap around her wrist. 

She's also wearing Photo-Contacts, (Best Quality,) carries around a camera who our Tech-Priest connected to a data-slate, a writing kit, two pairs of handcuffs, a medkit, and a few other small miscellaneous bits of gear. (Currently she also has six mangoes, but that's another story.)

 

The idea being, there is no situation that could possibly come up in which she isn't prepared for it. The only possible confrontation that I can't currently handle is a long-range sniper showdown, and we have two assassins for that. (Though one of our assassins is trying to kill the other, subtly...)

 

However, when I designed this, I made sure that all of this gear could reasonably be carried on a person, without looking silly. Every weapon has a holster, every piece of gear has a pocket or slot where it goes. She's pretty much coated in gear no matter where you look, but I made sure that there's nothing in hammerspace: If someone wants to know where my gear is, I have everything accounted for.

I feel like, as long as the players can give a reasonable explanation for how they are carrying their loot and gear, it doesn't pose an issue. However, if they are carrying around 2 shotguns, an autogun, a long-las, a couple revolvers, two pairs of Recoil Gloves, a dozen grenades, and a Great Weapon... That's a problem, whether or not they can carry the weight requirements.

 

 

Now, my second anecdote:

I was GMing a mission, and through various events one of my players managed to get access to a filthy rich baron's safe. The baron was a tech-heretic and was currently being arrested and sent for his execution, so the money was completely up for grabs. To keep things reasonable, he asked if he could just take out 12,000 Thrones. (4,000 for him, 2,000 for everyone else in the group.) I was conflicted about letting him take that much loot, but I decided to allow it.

Lo and behold... Things kept running smoothly. Everyone was able to buy gear that they wanted, (Except one player who had to pay for a new bionic arm,) but nobody was able to just go to town with their newfound wealth. 2,000 Thrones seems like a lot, but it's really only enough for one big purchase, and even that takes time and effort to do. (Since you have to find the thing.) Since then, we haven't had any instance of mission-wide loot going over 500 thrones, so I feel like it was a good choice to let the players splurge a little bit and either get one piece of really cool gear, (Synskin, or some fancy gun, etc.) or lots of utility gear that they wanted for their character. 


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#22 segara82

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:25 AM

Considering the prices of higher tier weapons or their continued supply (boltershells get very expensive very fast) 12k are, sorry for the choice of words, chickensh*t.

 

My group cleaned out a sub-captain of the Kasballica and (after wounding and threating his widow and daughter) walked away with over 175.000 Thrones. They spent about 30k alone for the necessary medical treatment (6 chars in the one digits or critical makes 3k per day for 10 days), another 25k for the curch in tithes, 60k for bribes and infos,  ... still some left for new equipment.

It just resulted in gaining some enemies among the Kasballica. Sure, they are clever enough to not outright kill members of the =I=, but they can still do some nasty things. Like telling their other enemies were they are.

See, my group is going on a trip to a feudal world on a transport ship filled with workers, agricultural experts, simple machines and such. And for SOME reasons a cabal of Dark Eldars the players had pissed off before knows that they are on that nice little not-heavily armed transport. So my players get a chance to use the new toys and armors they bought .... they will need them!

 

Nothing comes without a price.


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#23 Mikmaxs

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

Considering the prices of higher tier weapons or their continued supply (boltershells get very expensive very fast) 12k are, sorry for the choice of words, chickensh*t.
 
My group cleaned out a sub-captain of the Kasballica and (after wounding and threating his widow and daughter) walked away with over 175.000 Thrones. They spent about 30k alone for the necessary medical treatment (6 chars in the one digits or critical makes 3k per day for 10 days), another 25k for the curch in tithes, 60k for bribes and infos,  ...

What level were these guys? My players were all somewhere around high 2 or early 3.

#24 segara82

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:08 AM

4 when they got the money and 5 by now. They had dreams about bolt-weapons, carapace armor or similar gear.

Well, they got some of those. Their enemies are not slouches either.


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#25 Askil

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

I follow two very simple rules.

 

I don't let my players break cover to go splash big money at high-end weapon dealers on-mission.

 

and

 

If I don't want my players to have something I don't give it to a soft, squishy NPC.

 

If you absolutely must have a piece of awesome gear floating about you can always gene-lock it, have it get damaged in the fight to take it or make it a unique variant with power balanced by irritating drawbacks.

 

One such variant of my own devising was the meat hammer, a five barrelled sawn-off shotgun that did an enourmous amount of damage (with 0 Pen) but all five barrels fired as one and had to be reloaded individually every time.

 

When all else fails, poor quality is your friend.


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#26 segara82

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:20 AM

I thought the Meathammer was a triple-barreled shotgun that despite clip 1 requires 3 shells to reload?

But yes, fancy gear draws attention. The cleric in my party got as a present a best-quality Chain Sword.

As the primary close-combat fighter (the rest are all shooters) he of course happy as a clam.

Until he gets the first assigment to go undercover. Gold, silver and precious stones on the hilt and casing make it impossible to hide it.


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#27 Angel of Death

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:41 PM

I thought the Meathammer was a triple-barreled shotgun that despite clip 1 requires 3 shells to reload?

But yes, fancy gear draws attention. The cleric in my party got as a present a best-quality Chain Sword.

As the primary close-combat fighter (the rest are all shooters) he of course happy as a clam.

Until he gets the first assigment to go undercover. Gold, silver and precious stones on the hilt and casing make it impossible to hide it.

The Meathammer in Inquisitors Handbook is a 3 barrel shotgun, have a PC who carries a sawoff model

 

So can you share the stats for the 5 barrel one?


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#28 Simsum

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:09 AM

Oh the joys of making up a weapon and completely coincidentally calling it almost the same as one of the 40,000 established weapons :D

 

I found out I'd done the same a couple of months ago, when one of my players hit me up on Skype and asked if I was on crack because homebrew BBEG weapon X didn't match a similarly named weapon in one of the 40,000 books published for DH.

 

At which point I had to carefully explain to the guy - yet again - that I don't usually spend 5 hours gear hunting through the published material, when I can just stat up what I need in 10 seconds.

 

But lesson learned: next time I name something, Ï'm ümläütïng thë hëll öüt öf ït.

 

- I especially love when the "are you on crack" question is phrased as a polite inquiry that only suggests crack abuse is the only possible explanation, instead of recognising that the lives of most GMs are waaay too short to be trawling through the books for every little thing, and that ultimately the published material is of zero consequence.

 

EDIT:

 

As for a 5-barrelled Volg Meathammer, you could just up the damage to 3d5+6I and the reload to 5 shells instead of 3, and otherwise use the profile in DH04 The Inquisitor's Handbook on p.116 & 121.


Edited by Simsum, 14 July 2014 - 01:21 AM.


#29 Askil

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:53 AM

Oddly I just invented my meathammer off the top of my head, seem I must have unconsiously retained the concept from the IH at some point.

 

Mine was essentially a handcannon variant (with the attendant bracing rules) that fired five shotgun shells at 10m range for 4d5+2 with 0 Pen.

 

I called it he meathammer because a) it`s comically oversized for a pistol b) I pictured the wounds looking like tenderised beef.



#30 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:14 PM

(Currently she also has six mangoes, but that's another story.)

 

Even the most dedicated servant of the God-Emperor can't survive on faith alone :D

 

I follow two very simple rules.

 

I don't let my players break cover to go splash big money at high-end weapon dealers on-mission.

 

and

 

If I don't want my players to have something I don't give it to a soft, squishy NPC.

 

If you absolutely must have a piece of awesome gear floating about you can always gene-lock it, have it get damaged in the fight to take it or make it a unique variant with power balanced by irritating drawbacks.

 

...

 

When all else fails, poor quality is your friend.

 

All very good advice. Number two is especially important to remember, because it can be easy to kit out your big boss with the best gear he could possibly have without realizing the consequences of giving that gear to your players.

 

I recently gave a force staff to a Chaos-tainted psyker for a climactic battle, and the party psyker picked it up as a shiny new weapon. The rest of the party has chainsword- or bolter-level weaponry at this point, so the staff is much stronger than everyone else's gear. To balance this out, I gave the staff a hidden drawback :it has a small chance to cause Psychic Phenomena when the psyker attacks with it. As of yet, the psyker hasn't had a chance to use the staff (his arm was blown off by a lasgun in the same battle), but he'll have quite a nasty surprise if he overuses its power...

 

I called it he meathammer because a) it`s comically oversized for a pistol b) I pictured the wounds looking like tenderised beef.

 

To be fair, the Meat Hammer is one of my favorite weapon names in the whole Inquisitor's Handbook. Use it as often as possible! :P


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#31 Mikmaxs

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:51 PM

Covered in Weasels, does it cause phenomena whenever he rolls a 9 for damage?
To be fair, unless he has a Close Combat build or a high mastery level, Force weapons don't seem to OP to me.
Unless you're playing Ascension, it'll only be causing D10+6 AP6 damage. That's certainly high, but not too much higher than a chainsword. (A chainsword has less maximum damage, but due to tearing causes about equal average damage.) The chance for Instant Death is bigger, but not overwhelming.

The big weakness for a Psyker weilding it, though, is that he will almost definitely have no CC abilities. Has he taken ANY Weapon Skill advances? Crushing Blow? Swift Strike? If not, he still won't be causing much damage in Close Combat.

#32 segara82

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 03:26 AM

The real power lies in the discharge of the Psy Weapon. I mean 1-6d10 direct damage past armour and TB is insane.


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#33 ColArana

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:30 PM

Covered in Weasels, does it cause phenomena whenever he rolls a 9 for damage?
To be fair, unless he has a Close Combat build or a high mastery level, Force weapons don't seem to OP to me.
Unless you're playing Ascension, it'll only be causing D10+6 AP6 damage. That's certainly high, but not too much higher than a chainsword. 

 

You missed the bit where, if a Psyker lands a hit with a Force weapon, he can use a free action to cast a Psychic Power with a threshold of 6-- which forces a contested willpower test that deals an extra d10 damage (that ignores Armor and Toughness), for each degree of success the Psyker wins by (Inquisitor's Handbook page 188).


Edited by ColArana, 15 July 2014 - 08:37 PM.


#34 Mikmaxs

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:36 PM

To be fair, unless he has a Close Combat build or a high mastery level, Force weapons don't seem to OP to me.
Unless you're playing Ascension, it'll only be causing D10+6 AP6 damage. That's certainly high, but not too much higher than a chainsword.

 
You missed the bit where, if a Psyker lands a hit with a Force weapon, he can use a free action to cast a Psychic Power with a threshold of 6-- which forces a contested willpower test that deals an extra d10 damage (that ignores Armor and Toughness), for each degree of success the Psyker wins by.
But first he has to hit, right? And considering that Psykers generally lack melee talents or good WS, you're looking at maybe a 25% chance to hit after reactions. Then he has to use his power (Which, true, is not hard but it risks Perils,) and then beat someone in a Willpower test (Which also isn't too hard since he'll likely have higher Willpower.)
With all these limitations, you're looking at the bonus damage maybe 15-20% of the time, unless he's building very melee-heavy. (It's hard to give precise numbers without knowing his stats and the enemy's.) That really doesn't seem too bad to me.

#35 ColArana

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:42 PM

 

 

To be fair, unless he has a Close Combat build or a high mastery level, Force weapons don't seem to OP to me.
Unless you're playing Ascension, it'll only be causing D10+6 AP6 damage. That's certainly high, but not too much higher than a chainsword.

 
You missed the bit where, if a Psyker lands a hit with a Force weapon, he can use a free action to cast a Psychic Power with a threshold of 6-- which forces a contested willpower test that deals an extra d10 damage (that ignores Armor and Toughness), for each degree of success the Psyker wins by.
But first he has to hit, right? And considering that Psykers generally lack melee talents or good WS, you're looking at maybe a 25% chance to hit after reactions. Then he has to use his power (Which, true, is not hard but it risks Perils,) and then beat someone in a Willpower test (Which also isn't too hard since he'll likely have higher Willpower.)
With all these limitations, you're looking at the bonus damage maybe 15-20% of the time, unless he's building very melee-heavy. (It's hard to give precise numbers without knowing his stats and the enemy's.) That really doesn't seem too bad to me.

 

 

Suddenly a wild Templar Calix appears.

 

Even without Templar Calix, Savant Psykers get both Blademaster as well as Swift Attack, so the idea of them landing a hit in melee combat isn't that far fetched at all. At a high rank, they can have Favored by the Warp, and to roll a 6, they only need to roll one dice anyways to have a guaranteed pass on the test.

 

That's a 10% of Psychic Phenomena happening, and even if that happens, it's a 12.5% chance of Perils of the Warp if that's been rolled. That's a 1.2% chance of a high rank Psyker actually getting screwed by the Force Sword.

 

On actually hitting, we'll assume a Psyker with a Weapon Skill of 35. Swift Attack means he can make two attacks a round, and Blademaster allows him to reroll one miss as long as it's with a bladed weapon (Force Sword, we'll assume). Now, statistics aren't my strong point, but this BASICALLY gives even a non-Templar Calix Psyker a 63.7% chance of landing a hit per round, with a Weapon Skill of only 35. Not too shabby at all.

 

And yeah, if it's a Templar Calix, weapon skill is no problem at all.

 

 

Only way Force weapons conform to a relatively weak weapon in a Psyker's hand is if it's a Scholar branch Psyker and even THEN, there's a few Psychic Powers that would make landing that hit a lot easier.


Edited by ColArana, 16 July 2014 - 05:07 PM.


#36 ThenDoctor

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:15 AM

^This. The Templar Calix is tearing my run of Damned Cities apart one sword strike at a time. That's without me letting him do that extra channel of damage through his force sword because even he thought it was too much.


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#37 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:49 AM

 

Covered in Weasels, does it cause phenomena whenever he rolls a 9 for damage?
To be fair, unless he has a Close Combat build or a high mastery level, Force weapons don't seem to OP to me.
Unless you're playing Ascension, it'll only be causing D10+6 AP6 damage. That's certainly high, but not too much higher than a chainsword. 

 

You missed the bit where, if a Psyker lands a hit with a Force weapon, he can use a free action to cast a Psychic Power with a threshold of 6-- which forces a contested willpower test that deals an extra d10 damage (that ignores Armor and Toughness), for each degree of success the Psyker wins by (Inquisitor's Handbook page 188).

 

 

We're playing using the DH2 Beta rules, so psychic powers work a little differently. You make a WP test to manifest powers, and you cause psychic phenomena if you roll doubles. This particular force weapon causes Perils on any roll of doubles made to attack with the weapon. Force weapons still function the same way.

 

The bonus damage is definitely the strongest aspect of Force Weapons, and even a psyker with limited close combat skills has a decent chance of hitting his target. The party psyker has 42 WS (very good starting roll on 2d10+25) and force weapons count as Best Quality so there's an additional +10 to hit. That gives the psyker a target number of 52, not bad at all for someone with no close-combat talents.


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