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There is Only Necromunda


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#61 Lynata

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:24 AM

Huh, where's that fluff from?

 

The suggested profile would make sense in this context - though I'm not sure if the damage is not a wee bit too pitiful. Together with the lack of the Reliable trait (which would seem to conflict with the Necromunda core rulebook's description), it might make the autogun a clearly superior choice in that you'd get more damage, more range, more RoF and the ability to use special ammo. Conversely, the NP profile's only advantage is +20 rounds in the clip. Given the urban environment, you can't even play up supply issues as an argument for las over autoweapons.

 

Unless we'd also change the profile of the autogun. Or accept that the NP would be the "poor man's autorifle" in that its owners don't have to buy their ammo but can readily recharge their power packs at some semi-public energy source.

 

Come to think of it, maintaining a steady influx of bullets should probably be a factor. In games of DH etc this tends to be marginalised out of narrative focus and the characters' resources, but in a game about daily life in the underhive, keeping stocked up on bullets should be a thing, with its very own subsection in the trade/economy rules.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#62 Askil

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:36 PM

The NP being a jury rig? That`d be the nineties, the mars being single shot is from inquisitor (the first game system to define stats for seperate lasgun patterns.)

 

The reduced damage thing is my own rationalisation of a jury rigged single shot weapon being turned into a burst weapon, namely by divivding the energy into multiple shots, you get twice as many holes in the target but the holes are smaller. it`s entirely a handwavium suggestion seeing as FFG already made standard las have semifire.

 

Also in response you most definately can play up a supply issue for bullets on Necromunda.As an imperial guard supply planet that churns out thousands and thousands of standard imperial issue gear kit items for the IG (and even some kit for the Imperial Fists) notably neither of them commonly use auto or stub weapons smaller than their heaviest versions.

 

 As such bullets are produced by the merchants guild and the houses themselves from whatever cheap materials come to hand (due to ease of manufacture) bullets are more unpredictable and can be difficult to get hold of in significant quantities whereas the more expensive and reliable chargepacks "go missing" from the manufactoria all the time.


Edited by Askil, 22 April 2014 - 02:51 PM.


#63 Lynata

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:24 PM

The NP being a jury rig?

 

Yeah, that - where exactly did you read it? I don't recall having seen the NP being described in that detail, but I'm always on the hunt for interesting fluff (even if I'm picky when it comes to the exact origin).

 

As such bullets are produced by the merchants guild and the houses themselves from whatever cheap materials come to hand (due to ease of manufacture) bullets are more unpredictable and can be difficult to get hold of in significant quantities whereas the more expensive and reliable chargepacks "go missing" from the manufactoria all the time.

 

I'm probably affected by gut-feeling here as a lot of my "visual perception of Necromunda" was formed by various outsourced (read: Black Library and Warhammer Monthly) comics, and bullet guns were almost omnipresent there. I'm sure I've spotted a lasgun once or twice, but they seemed in the minority.

 

That being said, even the Necromunda rulebook only mentioned autopistols and autoguns when talking about the most common weapons in the Underhive. And indeed, for bullets it said:

 

"Ammunition spares and repair facilities are relatively easy to find throughout the Underhive, and traders always have guns and ammunition for sale."

 

For shotguns it's even better:

 

"The ammunition itself is easy to make, and many owners make their own shells."

 

Necromunda's infrastructure does not exist entirely for the Imperial Guard - I was under the impression that solid projectile weapons are always more common locally, and one of the few reasons the lasgun is favoured by off-world military forces is because they lack the production facilities to easily manufacture ammunition on-site. Yet Necromunda has them, hence a shortage seems unlikely.

 

That being said, rather than actually limiting the production, having access to said production might be another thing. The Underhive might be compartmentalised into sections with carefully controlled gates checked by the gangs, and depending on where said production sites and merchants are located, one gang might actually be able to cut another off its supply chain? Might be a bit far-fetched, though. Not sure.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#64 cpteveros

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:36 PM

It was never very concrete exactly how the Hive worked, beyond the Spire/Midlevel/Underhive thing. I get images of a massive apartment complex with workshops interspersed, and then I also could see the Hive itself being hollow, and the Underhive being full of settlements divided by rivers of sludge and piles of detritus. So either way, who knows?


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#65 Lynata

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:16 PM

40k as usual, eh?  ;)


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#66 LuciusT

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:22 AM

It was never very concrete exactly how the Hive worked, beyond the Spire/Midlevel/Underhive thing. I get images of a massive apartment complex with workshops interspersed, and then I also could see the Hive itself being hollow, and the Underhive being full of settlements divided by rivers of sludge and piles of detritus. So either way, who knows?

 

From the text of Necromunda rulebook I got the impression that at least the Underhive consists of a series of sturdy habitat domes connected by less sturdy transit tunnels. The whole thing tends to collapse under the weight of domes and tunnels built over it, but since the tunnels are more likely to collapse isolated domes are common. 

 

Of course, visualizing that result in a much less spiky hive tower...



#67 Askil

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:08 PM

Sp waepons and ammo are easy to make yes, but materials are at a premium on a factory world like Necromunda. (remember these are people wo fight to the death to pick through slag outflows for iron deposits.)

 

That said even if you are able to churn out bullets it still doesn`t outweigh the fact that you can recharge a lasgun`s charge pack at any standard powr outlletor even with exposure to heat or light.

 

Basically you have cheap unreliable projectile weapons that require frequent ammunition resupply and maintainance or slightly more expensve reliable energy weapons that run off charge packs which can generate free ammo.

 

As such las weapons are the tool of the pro (like Kal Jericho.) SP weapons are not (as evidenced by Scabbs.) They aren`t even considered military grade weapons until you reach the upper reaches of what is man-portable.

 

One important distinction is to draw a line between the underhive and the hive city proper they are very different environments and have vastly different access to resources as such gangers (from/ sponsored by the hive city houses) are not typical underhivers, they are well armed paramilitary organisation that assert dominance over the everyday scummer by their vastly superior firepower.

 

As for artwork and fluff, variation is far more interesting to see and read that everyone having the exact same thing so of course there is going to be mix of weaponry. In the vast majority of the Necromunda fluff we are dealing with the dregs of underhive society those who scrape by on their last few creds most the time, these are precisely the sort of people who`d be buying either the biggest or cheapest gun they can just to have a means to protect themselves regardless of it's effectiveness.


Edited by Askil, 24 April 2014 - 04:31 PM.


#68 Adeptus-B

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:51 PM

 

It was never very concrete exactly how the Hive worked, beyond the Spire/Midlevel/Underhive thing. I get images of a massive apartment complex with workshops interspersed, and then I also could see the Hive itself being hollow, and the Underhive being full of settlements divided by rivers of sludge and piles of detritus. So either way, who knows?

 

From the text of Necromunda rulebook I got the impression that at least the Underhive consists of a series of sturdy habitat domes connected by less sturdy transit tunnels. The whole thing tends to collapse under the weight of domes and tunnels built over it, but since the tunnels are more likely to collapse isolated domes are common. 

 

Of course, visualizing that result in a much less spiky hive tower...

 

 

HivePrimusInv.JPG

 

I picture the ancient hive cities growing like coral reefs, with layer built on top of layer, until it becomes too difficult to maintain the infrastructure of the lower levels, and they are abandoned to decay.

 

necromunda.jpg

 

There is a historical precedent: the Seattle Underground is a chunk of the city that was simply built over, with the Victorian structures left intact. Nowadays they run tours through the area.

 

5.jpg

 

Now, apply that situation to New York City, add some leaking nuclear reactors and toxic sludge, and let it stew for a few thousand years...


Edited by Adeptus-B, 23 April 2014 - 02:59 PM.

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#69 Askil

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:59 AM

I`ve started writing a ruleset for Only Necromunda (whichI will post at some point when I`m not on here through my console.)

 

I`m using a mix of Necro ed 1 (for costings) and OW for system so far.

 

Characters are tabula rasa additions to the underhive with individual background is determined by picking one of four origins and point-bought background details using a similar modular system to regiment creation (but per character) complete with advantage and disadvantage pacakges.

 

Notable points:

 

All players will be human (abhuman-like options are included in the form of the "big guy" and "little guy" background packages)

 

Characters will have to spend starting credits to supplement their (intentionally sparse) starting gear.

 

Item availibilities are being tweaked, this isn`t the Guard, triplex phall is on the other side of the galaxy and you`ll have to make do with local gear.

 

Credits are back! The logisics system will be used to determine if a character can obtain rare or unavailable items from the merchant`s guild (or black market) but cost will be the deciding factor in item acquisition.

 

Being a Psyker is a mutation not a job, there will be no specialised psyker archetype.

 

Characters are not (yet) affiliated to any faction but GMs are free to improvise or offer PCs oppurtunities to join up with factions.



#70 Askil

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 04:16 PM

Link as promised still WIP (because... well, hey I'm lazy.)

 

https://www.dropbox.... Necromunda.doc



#71 cpteveros

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 08:52 AM

I like it, a lot! I think the character creation system is strong and relatively quick. Do the different clothes that the occupations get have different AP? Or are they just flavor, really?

 

One thing I noticed is there really isn't a leader occupation, something with social skills. Maybe there could be a "Hetman" or "Foreman" class, that would add leadership abilities and social skills?



#72 Askil

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:50 AM

To answer your question the clothes are just flavor they all fall in the region of common quality clothing.

 

As for the leader thing you absolutely right there is no leader class. This isn`t the guard and there isn`t a chain of command unless somebody finds one and starts hitting you with it. 

 

The lack of a segeant-type is intentional because I think having an "out of the gate" leader can spoil things somewhat leadership should evolve dynamically in a group, especially a group of disparate underhive wanderers fleeing from the crushng rules and authority of the upper hive and not be an a priori function of what kind of chap you are.

 

That said if you are burning to lead by dint of meta-game ability and fluff leaves the Trader as the obvious choice with fellowship aptitude and closer ties to the powerful merchant`s guild that other types.

 

Also it might be worth mentioning that this conversion system is intended for use without comrades (maybe aqcuiring them later like BC minions.)

 

I`m basically I`m liking the idea behind the BC classless system and hoping to translate it to OW so your starting type is just that where you started out and not a firm definition of your character in the long term. 


Edited by Askil, 31 May 2014 - 12:52 AM.

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#73 cpteveros

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 07:14 AM

Do you intend to write up how the monetary system works? Maybe extra talents and traits?

 

As for the leader thing, I fully understand that this isn't the guard and there is no chain of command. My issue with it was that while there are "archetypes" for a melee character, a shooter, a stealthy person, tech whiz, and trader, there isn't an archetype for a more social style of character. 

 

I feel that is a significant loss, because while OW isn't set up well for social interaction and using social skills, this sort of game can be. I envision somebody who can talk their way out of problems more so than fighting. Just because you are using OW as a base for this write up doesn't mean you have to exclude the social skills aspect.

 

Maybe the archetype is that of a negotiator, arbitrator, foreman, nobleman, or charming rogue. Just something that can represent a person who doesn't need the barrel of a gun to accomplish what they want. 



#74 Lynata

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 09:25 AM

Well, it sounds like in Askil's rules, that would be the Trader then, as he mentioned?


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#75 Askil

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 01:12 AM

Do you intend to write up how the monetary system works? Maybe extra talents and traits?

 

As for the leader thing, I fully understand that this isn't the guard and there is no chain of command. My issue with it was that while there are "archetypes" for a melee character, a shooter, a stealthy person, tech whiz, and trader, there isn't an archetype for a more social style of character. 

 

I feel that is a significant loss, because while OW isn't set up well for social interaction and using social skills, this sort of game can be. I envision somebody who can talk their way out of problems more so than fighting. Just because you are using OW as a base for this write up doesn't mean you have to exclude the social skills aspect.

 

Maybe the archetype is that of a negotiator, arbitrator, foreman, nobleman, or charming rogue. Just something that can represent a person who doesn't need the barrel of a gun to accomplish what they want. 

 

This is answered in a seperate thread. I would direct future discussion to the dedicated project thread.

 

Well, it sounds like in Askil's rules, that would be the Trader then, as he mentioned?

 

And this is the short answer

 

From the Trader archetype

 

Aptitudes:

Fellowship

Willpower

Intelligence

Social

Leadership

Job done.
 

As for the monetary system it's very simple, you get guild credits by looting the environment for commodities, selling items you find, stealing from defeated enemies and completing jobs for NPCs.

 

You spend them at guild outposts or barter at black market traders. Basic RPG economy.


Edited by Askil, 01 June 2014 - 01:15 AM.





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