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An upgrade for a DH Ascension PC in my DW game.


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#21 Lynata

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:33 AM

A) The military?  If so, give him guardsmen cover.

 

:lol: This instantly made me think of the "meatshield" term.

 

Talent: Cannonfodder

Effect: Increases the character's Armour Rating by +2 AP for each Guardsman in the vicinity.

Any successful attack on the character reduces the number of Guardsmen by 1.

 

(no, I'm not actually being serious ... but it was a hilarious thought)

 

 

OT:

Re: Lyn's squad rules; Rather than changing anything else, I'd recommend that each shot that hits must do at least one point of damage after all else- but cannot kill a Master or Elite level foe; similarly a guard who gets righteous fury will deal at least 2 damage (lucky shot to eye or a ***** in the natural armour, kind of like Smaug) after all else, and can kill a master level foe.  Bear in mind that in the tabletop, any jerk with a lasgun can deal a wound on a Hive Tyrant.  This allows the squad of buddies to contribute without stealing the show after an assault marine gets righteous fury with a power sword on a Tau Battlesuit but leaves one hitpoint left... unless one of the squadmates gets righteous fury as well.

 

Huh, that's ... an interesting thought! Now, I'm a bit unsure about the "deal at least 1 damage" bit, as this is still (potentially) circumventing the equipment's natural restrictions - one of the things that bothered me about the Horde rules that ultimately led me to look for an alternative. That lasguns are so crappy here in comparison to the TT is simply a result of how BL/FFG use the Toughness score, as opposed to GW's solution in Inquisitor, and I'd rather resolve this by fixing TB rather than cheating with weapon profiles.

 

On the other hand, as the above requires the implementation of yet another houserule ... I think I will pursue your suggestion as a variant that would be more compatible with the offcial rules. It also allows me to simplify damage calculation a little*, and I do like your idea of "contributing without kill-stealing". In this case I'd probably remove the Righteous Fury altogether, though, or rather use it as a behind-the-scenes excuse for the guaranteed 1 Wound (essentially turning it into a lesser version of RF that is triggered with every attack, but isn't as devastating as the PC one).

 

*: How about ditching damage averages and target AP/TB entirely and just say a successful attack always deals 1 Wound per d10 on the weapon profile, plus 1 Wound per +5 damage or Pen? It kind of makes the target's armour and Toughness irrelevant, but on the other hand this kind of just shifts the average from the attacker's damage to the target's resilience. Or should it be a guaranteed 1 Wound per d10, plus 1 Wound if the combination of +damage and Pen is above the target's AP/TB?

 

Thanks for the inspiration. You've helped! :)


Edited by Lynata, 28 April 2014 - 06:38 AM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#22 Annaamarth

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:49 AM

I'm happy to help :) Although I was a little surprised that the forum bleeped out a word I used to mean "weak point in armour" as opposed to "negative racial epithet used for individuals of east Asian ethnic background."  I guess I understand why, but vaguely disappointed by the need for such censorship. :\

 

I wouldn't suggest increasing minimum damage dealt based on pen/damage.  I favour a flat "5 per d10, 2.5 per d5, flat bonus and pen as normal" approach (so a squad kitted out for fire support with autocannon would deal 23 damage pen 6 per shot, if I do my headmath/ mental lookup table right [yes, I know you'll never give a squad autocannon, just an example]), but with a minimum one damage all of the time.  Ditching righteous fury in this case seems appropriate, but I recommend bringing in special/secondary weapons into play more often, i.e. every round.  If a squad has a heavy bolter or multilaser, let him get multiple hits every round to whittle down hordes, and if a squad has an autocannon or missile launcher let them get a shot off every round to have one solid shot of murder, bearing in mind that a heavy weapon needs to be set up before firing (unless the squad has bulging biceps).

 

If you want to houserule toughness bonus for critters, remove the TB-as-armour mechanic for foes and give them a number of wounds for each point of toughness bonus, based on the sort of foe they are: 1 point for basic foes, 2 points for elites and 5 points for masters.  Still tanky, but a sort of tanky that can be whittled away by las-fire.  But that's a different house rule :)

 

Hm.  I actually really like that rule, but in order for balance, I would be tempted to double the damage and pen on any plasma or melta weapon, krak grenades and missiles, lascannon, and possible autocannon.  Double melta damage and pen again against vehicles, as long as within half standard range increment.  This would maintain anti-armour weapon effectiveness against single large, tough targets. Thoughts?


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#23 Lynata

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:35 AM

Thoughts?

 

I've sent you a PM - this might be getting a bit too spammy for pearldrum's thread/issue  :ph34r:


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#24 pearldrum1

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 11:22 PM

re: acolyte; so, not a typical stormtrooper, more of a rogue ex-acolyte... that tells me so very, very little.  

 

Yes, well, that may be intimately related to the fact that you did not ask. ;)

 

 

 Does he originate from

 

A) The military?  If so, give him guardsmen cover.

B) The arbites?  If so, give him arbitrators with combat shields, shockmauls and shotguns with special ammo.

C) A Tech-adept background?  If so, give him combat servitors- possibly ones that float.

D) A Naval background?  If so, give him naval support troops- like guardsmen, but with shotguns, possibly with special ammo.

E) The underworld?  If so, was he reformed by...

   1)  An Ecclesiarchal figure?  If so, give him arco-flaggelents.

   2)  A militaristic figure?  If so, give him penal-legionnaires.

   3)  A Tech, Arbitrator or Naval figure?  If so, as appropriate to the background.

 

He has a long and complicated history complete with a mind wipe, but as I remember it he was a penal legionnaire - which coincides with your option E, however, he was picked up to be an inquisitorial accolyte for the Ordo Hereticus - that ended with him being a free agent for *insert ominous reasoning here* and fall into the companionship of one Space Wolf Kill Marine. Through the years they had become tight and it is culminating with the Ordo Xenos making a move to pick him up and attach him to the current Kill Team that is working with my Inquisitor.

 

Eventually, I am thinking of giving him the option of requisitioning troops from the Inquisitor's military retinue. Most likely storm troopers that he will be training with and working with in between missions anyways.

 

Even still, I appreciate the options you laid out; it will be cool to pull from them in the future as the situation dictates.

 

 

The follow comes with an "Opinions stated here, your mileage may vary" stamp.

I mean, if we're talking about a lone gunman with a badass longcoat and a lascarbine... he should not be able to keep up with the Astartes in terms of combat.  If he does, you obviate the point of the Astartes and nullify their superhumanity.

 

Yes. I thought we had addressed that earlier, had we not (I could very well be thinking of a separate thread... in fact I almost certainly am)? The point is absolutely not for him to keep up with Astartes in combat but to supplement them in other areas. Most noteable this includes dealing with other humans, scouting (power armor is loud), being very good with demolitions and more subtley forcing the players into other battle decisions than simply "CHARGE." So far, it has been working like a charm.

 

 

If you're worried about him keeping up, for one thing ditch the lascarbine and give him a heavier weapon- not Astartes grade, but...

 

If he's beefy enough to take Bulging Biceps, have him do so and let him take an Autocannon.  Don't think of an autocannon in the terms you usually see it, but think of it as God's own sniper rifle, the 40k equivalent to a Barrett .50 rifle reaching out and snuffing out a life.  At 3d10+8 pen 6, That's a carbine that'll make them feel the pain!  Alternatively, if he'd rather fire support and pretend he's a midget devastator who favours rate of fire over damage, he could take a multilaser.  This is how you re-enact these scenes from Predator, but with lasers. 

 

If he isn't beefy but he's pretty agile, and you want him to be a nimbly bimbly little snot, have him take the 2-pistol talents. Then give him a quartet of pistols- 2x hotshot las pistols and, for his special weapon, 2x plasma pistols.  Or 2x melta pistols. That's a lot of gunslinging hate.

 

I'd recommend starting off with a "standard" loadout, similar to what Astartes have, then giving him the chance to upgrade it mission to mission.  If he's the Biceps man, start him off with a heavy stubber.  If not, start with either a hotshot lasrifle or two hotshot laspistols.

 

I still prefer the horde rules, though.

 

Re: Lyn's squad rules; Rather than changing anything else, I'd recommend that each shot that hits must do at least one point of damage after all else- but cannot kill a Master or Elite level foe; similarly a guard who gets righteous fury will deal at least 2 damage (lucky shot to eye or a ***** in the natural armour, kind of like Smaug) after all else, and can kill a master level foe.  Bear in mind that in the tabletop, any jerk with a lasgun can deal a wound on a Hive Tyrant.  This allows the squad of buddies to contribute without stealing the show after an assault marine gets righteous fury with a power sword on a Tau Battlesuit but leaves one hitpoint left... unless one of the squadmates gets righteous fury as well.

 

I quite like the specialty las carbine stats I came up with for him - and a las carbine suits his character much more from an RP standpoint - which to me is more important than simply giving him a bigger gun to "compete better" (which can seem misleading since the topic of this thread was to genetically enhance him, however, Lynata already came up with a great deterrent for that which is more true to form).

 

But I really like opening up various talents for him. That helps a lot. Thanks a lot. As someone who isnt 100% familiar with DH or BC or OW, any talent options from those that you guys think might work well for this PC, please let me know!

 

And I agree, the needless censoring is getting ridiculous, dude. Good God.



#25 Annaamarth

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:42 AM

To be fair, I never asked what he was because you lead with the phrase "Storm Trooper"- then you said he wasn't actually a Storm Trooper and failed to explain what he was instead in any detail, making any possible assumptions I could have made from your original post more or less obsolete.  So, rather than asking in the next post, I just gave you a dial-an-option chart for all of the most likely possibilities :)

 

Making him the group "face" works, though.  The scouting role isn't one I had considered, because any Raven Guard can probably do it better- but you may not have a Raven Guard or that supplement (they get a cheap talent that removes stealth penalties from wearing PA).  As long as A) you are comfortable with where he is combat-wise, B) he's the face and C) you like the idea of opening up additional talent options, then let's consider...

 

Operate (Aeronautica) and (Voidship) might be good, as well as (non-specific) agility enhancements to improve both piloting and dodge skills.  This gives him the ability to run the Thunderhawk or Stormraven for insertion.  The Flight Marshal alternate career rank in Into the Storm could contribute to these skills as well.  The Operate (Surface) skill would let him drive the Rhino (or a combat Sentinel, or a tank, or a scout bike).  Judicious use of this could allow him to fill a fire support role similar to a Devastator or Techmarine in certain circumstances, or just help provide rapid travel for the Killteam. The Tank Ace advanced specialty (Hammer of the Emperor) could provide tools here.  The Push the Limit talent (Hammer of the Emperor) or an MIU Interface could help in either of these roles- flying or surface.

 

If he has a high Int in the group, Combat Formation has the possibility of improving group-wide initiative.  The Heroic Inspiration talent (Hammer of the Emperor) could also help him in a tactical support role. A Memorance Implant (OW) provides the Total Recall talent and can help any time memory is important- effectively making him the team automap, perhaps.  Cybernetic Auger arrays would also contribute here.

 

The Unremarkable talent could help with more social infiltration- say, for urban surveillance of a target.  This isn't what Killteams normally do, though.  It might be useful for embedding him into troop formations while attempting to counter genestealer infiltration and whatnot, maybe? There are, I believe, cybernetic enhancements for improving face skills and social-fu, so those are options- but you'd have to look through DH or RT to find the best items there, and adapt them accordingly.

 

Basic rules covering followers exist in First Founding, if you have it.  Frontline followers pre-stated include Combat Servitors and Fenrisian Wolves (as well as a Familiar, which only improves psychic stuff).  Talents suitable for improving Followers can be found in the BC supplement Tome of Excess, but those would have to be adapted, I think.

 

A cybernetic combat-drug dispenser (I'm sure they exist, but I haven't happened to come across one so far, too lazy to look for it specifically).  Pain Suppressant (a DW drug) would be a good option, as well as Frenzon (Only War) if he doesn't have the Frenzy talent.  Slaught (OW) can help in his scouting role, improving his Ag and Per boni each by 3.  Similarly, refer to WilliamAsher's suggestion to check out Gland Warrior in Into the Storm.

 

The Ocular Sight cybernetic (OW Hammer of the Emperor) would be useful for him any time he's indulging in semi- or fully- automatic fire, as it provides Unnatural BS when in use.

 

I know this started out as "how to spend XP," and I'm throwing in a bunch of cybernetic options- maybe allow him to spend XP on certain cyber enhancements?

 

This should give you even more potential threads to track down- flying/tank ace, tactical leader, infiltration, combat drugs, gratuitous cyber-enhancement.  Talk to your player, see what sort of long-term image he has in mind for himself.


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RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#26 Lynata

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

The scouting role isn't one I had considered, because any Raven Guard can probably do it better- but you may not have a Raven Guard or that supplement (they get a cheap talent that removes stealth penalties from wearing PA)

 

Then again, any DW Marine could simply opt for wearing Scout Armour instead of PA. ;)

 

But of course that'd make him a little more squishy, and if the established group dynamic works, there's no reason to push the character out of one of the few areas where he's actually useful.

 

combat drugs, gratuitous cyber-enhancement

 

Depending on the specific item in question, those might enable him to "transcend" his supporting role, though. If the player is satisfied with being the group's pathfinder, or "automap", to use your example, and everyone in the group agrees that he should not get too close to the combat efficiency of the Marines, then any such enhancements should be limited to enhancing noncom tasks.

 

From the drugs you mentioned, the Pain Suppressant might be useful to keep him alive. Frenzon on the other hand just sounds like a ticket into an early grave, considering that the enemies in DW are scaled for close combat with power-armoured, unnaturally tough Astartes. Unless you include special opponents just for his character, but this might be tricky as they could get easily taken out by one of the Marines.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#27 Annaamarth

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:34 AM

Re: Frenzon- Hey, I didn't say it was a really good idea for the player- I just threw it in there as an option.  It's always an option for a player to go lemming!

 

Re: Role- I didn't suggest the best-quality muscle enhancement for that reason- it gives him the unnatural strength of a Marine, but limits agility, which runs counter to his established role so far.  The cyberware recommended all lent itself towards support roles- except for the Ocular Sight.  That's just shoot-tastic- but it's really no better than his weapon.  If he was lugging around a Storm Bolter, it'd be a bigger deal.  Lascarbine?  I am doubtful.


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RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#28 Lynata

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:05 AM

Ah, gotcha, the "gratuitous enhancement" somehow sounded as if you'd turn him into a combat monster, in spite of the two examples (probably as I recalled that most bionics come with some sort of combat advantage). Sorry for the misunderstanding. :)


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#29 Annaamarth

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:50 PM

Pah.  No apologies necessary.  Just remember all of the 40k art where you see hunched savants with cables galore sprouting from their heads or cybernetic augmentation just to get around.


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RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#30 Lynata

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:05 PM

Quite... Just because it begs repeating  :lol:


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current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#31 pearldrum1

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:09 PM

Don't forget the Conversion field.  50% save means half the hits aren't.  This is particularly useful for those few times he won't be able to avoid the hit.

 

Where can I find the stats/availability for this?



#32 ak-73

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:49 AM

 

I am starting to become worried about you, Lyn... this seems to have become a fetish! :lol:

 

Alex


My 40K Blog (essentially a Best Of FFG Forums):

http://www.40kroleplay.weebly.com

House Rules, Rule Clarifications, Game Aids, New Creatures, consolidated official Deathwatch Squad Mode rules, 40K Tabletop to 40K Roleplay comversions, etc.


#33 Lynata

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:21 AM

Warhammer 40,000, you mean? Yes, I think it has.  :P

 

I also may have been on /tg/ too long.


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current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#34 Calgor Grim

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:49 AM

Conversion field

 

 

Don't forget the Conversion field.  50% save means half the hits aren't.  This is particularly useful for those few times he won't be able to avoid the hit.

 

Where can I find the stats/availability for this?

 

 

Fancy name for a forcefield. Just look up a Rosarius. There's one in RoB P143 and yes humans can have them as well as marines. Inquisitors, some of the Sororitas, clergy etc. Theres no renown or req for it though cause in DW you only get it for being a Chaplin.

 

They appear in Dark Heresy Ascension though (P145) where they are functionally the same and count as Extremely Rare for its availability. Using the chart on DW core rulebook P139 it gives you rough req rates to charge for this but feel free to tinker with it.


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Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#35 ak-73

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:25 PM

Warhammer 40,000, you mean? Yes, I think it has.  :P

 

I also may have been on /tg/ too long.

 

Tell me you're not a namefag! :D

 

Alex


My 40K Blog (essentially a Best Of FFG Forums):

http://www.40kroleplay.weebly.com

House Rules, Rule Clarifications, Game Aids, New Creatures, consolidated official Deathwatch Squad Mode rules, 40K Tabletop to 40K Roleplay comversions, etc.


#36 pearldrum1

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:13 PM

 

Warhammer 40,000, you mean? Yes, I think it has.  :P

 

I also may have been on /tg/ too long.

 

Tell me you're not a namefag! :D

 

Alex

 

 

Are we going to have to remove you guys to another location.... AGAIN? Just kiss already, good lord.


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#37 ak-73

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:53 AM

I know better than to approach one of the Emperor's Brides! :lol:

 

Alex


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My 40K Blog (essentially a Best Of FFG Forums):

http://www.40kroleplay.weebly.com

House Rules, Rule Clarifications, Game Aids, New Creatures, consolidated official Deathwatch Squad Mode rules, 40K Tabletop to 40K Roleplay comversions, etc.





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