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Pen vs. TB


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#61 Lynata

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:43 PM

If we discard the critical tables and insteads use the injuries from inquisitor (leaving out the wounds difference and such) you can still have a gritty and cinematic battle scene without the merry air of invincibility that comes with the buffer zone of wound values.

 

I'm on the fence here as Inquisitor has much smaller Crit tables, leading to heavier injuries that can potentially cripple a character in a single attack (as your example pointed out). I like gritty, but I thought that mixing it with DH's Crit tables (which in essence doubles the "buffer zone") strikes a neat balance between realism and entertainment.

However, I'm sure we all draw our own lines regarding that balance, so this is a very subjective topic. :)

 

What I do like about the Inquisitor injury tables is that they are less specific than the DH ones. Some GMs might balk at the concept of having to come up with their own descriptions, but the advantage I see here is that they can tailor said description to what actually occurred in the game, rather than slavishly sticking to a pre-written text that may or may not fit to what just happened to the character.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#62 Askil

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 03:12 AM

The notable factor was that in inquisitor your death theshold was your toughness value. (porting this raises problems with the handling of unnatural toughness)

 

The game also gave methods of going out of action without dying, namely system shock tests on heavy attacks (T/5) and unconsciousness value (T/2) when these are factored in the D3 per turn (on a successful T test) recovery system made a little more sense but these are definately better suited to a tabletop campaign game that a RPG.

 

It should also be noted that a location could only be healed by making a successful healing action on that location and it couldn't be recover more than two injury levels from it's worst condition without proper (read: hospital, not combat) medical attention and recovery time.

 

Single shot injury is all the more reason to get in cover supress enemies and act as a squad, the fact you are squishy is a feature of OW not a drawback.



#63 Lynata

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:48 AM

The notable factor was that in inquisitor your death theshold was your toughness value. (porting this raises problems with the handling of unnatural toughness)

 

Yeah. An idea I had about Unnatural Toughness was to simply turn this into Wounds that a creature or character has before the first Injury is triggered. In essence, only removing Wounds from normal characters or creatures, whereas bigger monsters etc retain a layer of protection you'd have to blast through first before actually starting to harm them.

 

Personally, I'd be looking to eliminate the current version of Unnatural traits wherever possible. I'm operating on a "if you're stronger, you are stronger" basis, and as much as I keep nagging about how FFGmarines are OP, it's silly that a normal human with 55 Strength has a better chance at pulling open a locked door than a genetically enhanced Astartes with 40 Strength and UT.

 

But my solution for this would include shifting both the range for starting characteristics and the range for characteristics advances, which would make it start to look like an entirely new game rather than a houserule...

 

Single shot injury is all the more reason to get in cover supress enemies and act as a squad, the fact you are squishy is a feature of OW not a drawback.

 

Yes, but I'd still want the game to remain enjoyable. If I wouldn't want to make OW even squishier than it already is in the RAW (which is not a lot), I'd not be looking into porting Inquisitor in the first place - I just hesitate as I don't want to take it "too far". :)


Edited by Lynata, 19 May 2014 - 08:49 AM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#64 Myrion

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:29 AM

What would you do about True Grit, then, Lynata?

#65 Lynata

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:25 AM

Good question! I've not given every talent that affects injuries a thought yet.
 
On a hunch, how about if a character with True Grit would round incurred damage (after it was divided by TB) down instead of up - but only for the purpose of determining additional injury levels after the first?
For example, a character with TB 3 who gets 5 damage would only receive a single level of injury (5/3=1.66 rounded down to 1) instead of two (5/3=1.66 rounded up ot 2).
 
An easier, less convoluted version of this would be that True Grit simply reduces any injury levels received by 1, to a minimum of 1.
 
Alternatively, or in addition to the above, True Grit could confer a bonus to Tests against unconsciousness or death that are rolled as a result of the total number of injury levels accumulated.
 
As a third option, True Grit could also work somewhat similar to Good Quality armour in that the very first attack you receive in any combat encounter cannot cause more than two levels of injury. Even if a battle cannon shell explodes right next to you. Some people just get lucky - like Tom Hanks in Saving Private Ryan!
 
Or, as a variant of this, if you ever receive more than 3 injury levels in a single attack, they only count as 3?

Edited by Lynata, 19 May 2014 - 10:26 AM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#66 Myrion

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:06 PM

The first two seem a bit weak, to me. Particularly compared to the current version.

The bonus to Toughness tests reminds me strongly of GURPS, where being reduced to 0 HP forces Health tests every round to not fall unconscious, and passing -1xHP - -4xHP checks against death. (-5xHP being automatic death with very little left)
There are advantages that confer bonuses to those checks and that leads to nice, orky situations where the monster JUST WON'T DIE. I like that idea.

Ignoring the first X levels is neat, but just means that you bring back a few HP for those characters... Not really in favour :)

The last option I like again. Leaves weak attacks useful while making you appropriately tough against the big stuff.






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