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Pinning multiple pinned disks


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#1 Timpro

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 09:53 PM

I have a question about pinning.
We ran into this situation where we weren't exactly sure what to do:

tumblr_n3a7hwmqCs1sqyrf5o1_500.jpg

Is this considered a traditional scrum so that the Bloodthirster, despite having Frenzy, only engages the topmost Orc Boyz disk and so can only damage that one single disk this round,

OR

does he pin all three Orc Boyz disks and, thanks to Frenzy, deals damage to all three disks and is being dealt damage from all three disks this round in return?

I have checked all examples in the rulebook but none of them were really conclusive.

 

To resolve the situation, we chose to err on the side of carnage and decided that all disks deal damage to each other so everyone died (the Bloodthirster had a wound).

But which way is right?

If the Bloodthirster also dealt impact damage, would he deal it to all three disks, or just the topmost one?


Edited by Timpro, 30 March 2014 - 10:09 PM.


#2 uspec

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:03 AM

i dont know exactly, but my vote goes for the daemon is battling 3 orc regiments.

 

also in the rulebook there is an example of teclis being pinned by 2 disks, and he can choose what to hit back. (yes there is no one first and second pinning him, but being seen from top its the same engagement as in your example). If the daemon would be a normal disk without frenzy he also would need to choose which one of the 3 disks he want to deal damage to, because seen from top he is touching all 3.

 

impact damage focuses on the first disk (ally or enemy) in its path (at least if not flying), so you have to get you geometry going and calculate which one of the three disks would have been have reached first if it would not be flipped but maybe moved, from its last position before the pinning happened. And if you cant think of which disk should recieve the damage because of totally equal distance from the last disk position before the final flip than i would say, that the daemon decides (so its player) which one enemy disk he impacts.


Edited by uspec, 31 March 2014 - 07:07 AM.

The game has changed.


#3 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:24 AM

I'm pretty sure that the BT only hits the top disk, since that disk interviens between him and the other orcs.


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#4 Timpro

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:19 PM

impact damage focuses on the first disk (ally or enemy) in its path (at least if not flying)

I don't have he rules here right now, but I though the rulebook states clearly that impact damage is only dealt to disks that are being pinned by a unit with the impact special rule. Since pinning is defined as ending a move on another disk, I always thought you don't deal impact damage to the first disk in your path, but rather to any disk you end your move on. That's why you can move disks with impact damage through friendly units because you don't pin them while you move through them.



#5 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:31 PM

 

impact damage focuses on the first disk (ally or enemy) in its path (at least if not flying)

I don't have he rules here right now, but I though the rulebook states clearly that impact damage is only dealt to disks that are being pinned by a unit with the impact special rule. Since pinning is defined as ending a move on another disk, I always thought you don't deal impact damage to the first disk in your path, but rather to any disk you end your move on. That's why you can move disks with impact damage through friendly units because you don't pin them while you move through them.

 

 

 

Nope.  Anytime you flip onto a disk friendly or not, you are pinning them.  You just don't have to stop for friendlies.  Impact damage hits anything you pin.  Friend or foe.  



#6 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:38 PM

Here are the rules:

 

Pinning occurs when a disk is on top of another disk. The disk 
on top pins the disk on bottom, which is known as the pinned 
disk. However, if there is a disk between two disks, then the top 
disk is not pinning the bottom disk; only the disk in the middle is 
pinning the bottom disk.
Example: Two disks are stacked on top of a third disk. Disk A is 
being pinned by disk B, which is being pinned by disk C. Disk C, 
however, is not pinning disk A because disk B is between them.

 

Impact X. A disk with impact deals physical damage equal to its impact 
value to each disk it pins after a flip. A disk cannot deal impact damage 
to a disk it was already pinning prior to flipping. Impact damage is not 
applied when a disk is deployed or reinforced pinning another disk, or 
when a flying disk moves over a disk without ending its movement.
 
Hope this helps.

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#7 Timpro

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 04:36 PM

It does, thank you! Answers the original question too then, I suppose



#8 ziggy2000

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:31 AM

So, what we have here is not really a scrum, as the Bloodthirster is only pinning the top Orc Boyz, and there are no embattled disks, right? What happens after the engagement? Bloodthirster will deal its attack strength of 6 to the top Boyz, which is enough to overcome the toughness of 4 and kill it. In return the Boyz deal 3 counter strength back, so Bloodthirster takes 3 damage tokens, and the top Boyz is removed. NOW, the Bloodthirster is engaged with the next Boyz! So rinse and repeat? Bloodthirster deals 6 attack against 4 toughness and kills the second disk, while the Boyz retaliate with 3 which matches the toughness of 6 on the the Bloodthirster, which will now receive a wound token and remove all damage tokens. So the second Boyz goes away, and now Bloodthirster is engaged with the bottom Boyz, and again deals 6 against 4, killing the last Boyz and taking 3 more damage in return.

 

Bottom line - Bloodthirster manages to kill off all 3 of the Boyz, and ends up with 1 wound and 3 damage. Frenzy never comes into play because the Bloodthirster is only ever engaged with one enemy at a time, and Resistant never works cause the Orcs damage is not arcane. Does this seem right? If not, what am I missing?

 

(I won't even ask why the Orcs managed to pin each other this way before the Bloodthirster swooped in...)

 

EDIT: I was completely wrong here, as explained below.


Edited by ziggy2000, 01 April 2014 - 05:59 PM.


#9 Timpro

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 04:43 PM

I thought the rules said that in this case, after the first disk is removed, both disk engage in a new fight which is resolved in the next melee phase?

The three disks were reinforced through the windmill all at once, and while I'm typing this, I realise that you can only reinforce one disk per card through the windmill...  :rolleyes:



#10 ziggy2000

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:56 PM

I thought the rules said that in this case, after the first disk is removed, both disk engage in a new fight which is resolved in the next melee phase?
 

You are absolutely right, and this is made clear by the paragraph at the end of page 18:

 

"If a new engagement occurs as a result of another engagement being 

resolved, players cannot resolve the new engagement during the same 
melee phase. This most commonly occurs when an embattled disk is 
removed as a casualty, allowing the disk on top of it to pin the disk that 
was below it."
 
So my example above was wrong after the first engagement resolves and the top Boyz are removed.

Edited by ziggy2000, 01 April 2014 - 07:17 PM.

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