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Zebulon Whateley Question


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#21 The Professor

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 04:08 PM

Haha, I'm a pretty clever Investigator.
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#22 The Professor

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 02:43 AM

Julia,

It's nice to see Chris acknowledging the work of play-testers, albeit as part of a larger obituary to two incredible colleagues. I don't know if it really fits in the context, but it seems as though the company could take the time and profile each of the various groups identified in his "Remembering..." piece.

While it certainly would've been interesting and a different play-test environment to assist FFG from what I've known these past four years in the war-gaming arena, I think the talents and time expended in the war-game realm are held in much higher regard. It's a wonderful feeling to bring a game fully to life.

Cheers,
Joe

Edited by The Professor, 01 April 2014 - 02:44 AM.

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#23 Julia

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:59 AM

Joe,

 

yes, I was happy for Chris' post as well. It's like the ending scene of Gangs of New York: history often forgot the names of those who worked hard to allow a few to arise. I was happy to read that note.

 

Not so sure we can relate the wargame to the boardgame arena: too a different public, not only in terms of "numbers" but also in terms of "fruition"

 

Still, I'm totally happy to be involved in such an arena: helping in bringing a game to life is certainly something wonderful. Plus, it helps me to have more games I like :whistle: (joking, clearly)

 

 

JULIA


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#24 SemiAddict

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:04 PM

Even though I only had microwave spaghetti tonight, I've been following this exchange with great interest.



#25 SemiAddict

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:11 PM

Sorry, I accidentally hit the space key.  I've really been more interested, though, in the part about combat spells and Zebulon's ability.  Like Tibs, I'm bothered by the double usage of the spell, but maybe for a different reason.  It seems to me like a violation of the rule that a hand is taken up by a spell for one round of combat, whether or not the cast was successful.  To me, this rule equally implies that a spell is taken up by its hand (or hands) for that specific combat round.  Note that if the spell in question were two-handed like the Dread Curse, you couldn't even think of recasting it on that round, whether you had Zebulon, another refreshed copy of the spell, or whatever. 



#26 Julia

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 02:53 AM

Yup, sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

As said, rules seem to be pretty clear on how long a spell cast remains in effect, so that Zebulon seems to allow recasting of the same spell in case the usual conditions are met.

 

If you cast it and fail, you can't use that hand for that round of combat, but that's it, you can refresh & recast and use it with your other hand. Point is that using a spell "blocks" you one (or two hands), not having the card exhausted.

 

If you're still bothered by this, just play it the way you feel more comfortable with. Or use Ockham's razor and ask FFG, Tim usually is rather quick in covering Arkham questions.


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#27 The Professor

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:48 PM

Semiaddict,

If I understand her position entirely, I'm in full agreement with Julia. While an Investigator with this Ally may fail to cast the spell and lose the ability of that hand AND exhaust the spell, he may un-exhaust it the very next round against the same monster in combat. Additionally, if an Investigator were to cast Wither and defeat a Cultist in the location, alongside a Ghoul, the Investigator, through the use of the Ally may unexhaust the Wither Spell and attempt to defeat the Ghoul. He's a great Ally.

Cheers,
Joe

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#28 Julia

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:49 AM

Yes, Joe, that was my exact reading of the card, thanks for help in wording it in a proper English!


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#29 Reynier

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:45 PM

Page 3 of the official arkham FAQ version 2.0 states:

 

 
Weapons and Spell Limits
(page 15 in the first printing of the
Arkham Horror
rules)
A spell or weapon that gives you a bonus (even one that
says it lasts until the end of combat) only continues to give
you the bonus while you devote the required number of
hands to it. You can choose to switch weapons/spells in
later combat rounds, but as soon as you “release” a spell or
weapon, it stops working for you. Similarly, spells that are
refreshed (such as at the beginning of each combat round
in the Final Battle) cease to work and must be re-cast.

 

 
 
So yeah, using Zebulon on a wither in the middle of battle basically nullifies that wither.  But it can be used to recast a failed spell (though this takes up another hand if done in the SAME round of combat) or to use the spell again against a second monster.
 
Thanks for all the input :)

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#30 Julia

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

LOL

 

I missed this part in the FAQ entry I quoted earlier

 

"Similarly, spells that are refreshed (such as at the beginning of each combat roundin the Final Battle) cease to work and must be re-cast"

 

Then you're totally correct (and Tibs was correct as well). Sorry guys for the misleading answer


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#31 The Professor

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:49 PM

Julia,

 

     No problem, my friend!  By the, I'm home safe and sound...Susan is still in Germany visiting a school friend from Hong Kong.

 

Reynier,

 

    I hope my post made sense as that's exactly what I stated and how I play it.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#32 SemiAddict

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:06 PM

I took Julia's advice and went to FFG on this.  Here's the response (not from Tim but from Daniel Clark):

 

In the case of Zebulon Whateley refreshing a failed Shriveling spell, the hand is not now free to use a new item or spell - the rules on page 16 indicate that it takes up a hand even if the casting check fails and only refers to switching items in future combat rounds. However, the Investigator could attempt to cast the Shriveling spell again (paying all costs and making a new check). 
 
This would seem to indicate that though a failed cast takes up a hand, it can still be recast in the same round using Zeb's ability, and would also leave the other hand free, whether the recast for the first hand worked or not. 


#33 Julia

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:14 PM

And this is in clear contrast with the quoted FAQ:

 

"Similarly, spells that are refreshed (such as at the beginning of each combat roundin the Final Battle) cease to work and must be re-cast"

 

This is the second time in few days that Daniel gives an answer not compatible with the rules. Really, I miss Tim

 

EDIT: I misread the implications of the answer. Thanks Tibs


Edited by Julia, 19 April 2014 - 10:46 AM.

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#34 The Professor

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:05 PM

Julia,

 

     Inconsistency is one of the many charming things about FFG games...wait, no, not really... :huh:

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#35 Tibs

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:39 AM

Julia: I think you should scrutinize Dan's answer again. I don't think he's saying that refreshing it allows the bonuses to stack: I think he's saying that, by virtue of the fact that you failed the check in the first place, you're still forced to make the first combat check with that hand used up. Whether or not you get the +6 bonus will depend on whether or not you attempt to cast it again before making the combat check and pass.

 

Note that Dan is referring to if you failed the spell check the first time and would like another go at it. He has not indicated that you could pass the check, refresh the spell, and then immediately pass it again to get a +12 for the next combat round.


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#36 Julia

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:45 AM

Uh, correct, thanks Chris.


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