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Terrifying power creep of shop item cards.


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#41 Whitewing

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 11:07 PM

 

There's a distinction between over and underpowered and broken. The fact that many people get it wrong does not change that. Broken means, well, broken. Unplayable. Not usable in its current state. Game destroying. Something can be overpowered or underpowered yet not break anything.


Whitey, you and I seem to agree on a lot of things, and I respect you for that.  However, here I have to stand opposed. The common use of a word, whether technically correct or not, still counts for something.

If 90% of the people understand the word "download" to mean "copying a file from a remote server to my local computer," and "upload" to be the opposite, then the fact that the original definitions of these words were the reverse is of little consequence. This is what people mean, and trying to use the words "correctly" is only going to generate confusion among the masses. Bully for you if you know the truth, but it's not going to change how people talk.

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.

 

I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance.  The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied.  You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

 

 

I was purposefully pointing out the distinction to make my stance more clear. I needed to express gradations to ensure that while I will give that the card may be slightly on the overpowered side for an act 1 item, even given its restrictions, I do not find the card game breaking. I did it because if I use the word broken the same way others commonly do, then I no longer have a term to describe something that breaks the game, so I was making the distinction in order to better express myself, not particularly to insist that they are wrong to use it the way they were. I may have not been as clear as I wanted to, so for that I apologize.



#42 BigBadUnshaved

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:46 AM

Once again I would like to draw attention from the Rune Plate discusson (since everyone already has their opinion on that, and they won't change) and more on to the intention of this thread (badly presented in the opening poster, but still) - stopping the power creep.

 

My intention with this topic is to rely the message to FFG that in a game like Descent power creep of cards (ALL cards now that I think about it) is not needed like in LCG. All expansions will sell nicely not because they have oh-my-god-super-powerful item/relic/monster/OL-card or whatever, but because they'll give new options, new scenarios and campaigns to play, in short variety. Whenever we get a game element that is significantly superior, an element we can always choose to pick, variety of choices will suffer. In the long run, the fun & enjoyment from the game for all players will suffer.

To stress again: the Rune Plate is not such a card. When I said 'broken' I did indeed mean an item that is not balanced when you compare it to it's alternatives, not 'game-breaking-winner-deciding'. It is however a precedence - the best armor for certain heroes in act I which means it's not a chance - it's a choice if you pick it up or not - and it's a 'do we buy rune plate' not 'do we buy any act I armor before act II' because rune plate is so good that you would be stupid to buy any other armor over it. Contrary to what some here say, Rune Plate doesn NOT have ANY restrictions - it works better in certain situations but there are NO penalties for using it (unlike 90% of the armor avaible in the game). What's next, an act I melee weapon that rolls red/red, red/yellow, or red/green? I don't want to see more of such items, of best-in-slot weapons/armors for other heroes/trinkets that are act I shop item cards.

 

It works two ways however. I also don't want to see act I monsters with act II stats. I don't want to see monsters so ridicullously powerful that they are always picked whenever they can be choosen as an open group, no matter the map/vicotry conditions. I don't want to see lvl 1 and 2 overlord cards that do what some lvl 3 OL cards do, but better. I don't want to see lieutenants/agents that decimate entire hero parties on their own in one-two turns.

 

TL;DR - no power creep, more focus on variety and new mechanics FFG. Descent products will sell like crazy without power creep, at least that's what interests me here and I belive I'm not alone on this among Descent players.



#43 amoshias

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:21 AM


I was purposefully pointing out the distinction to make my stance more clear. I needed to express gradations to ensure that while I will give that the card may be slightly on the overpowered side for an act 1 item, even given its restrictions, I do not find the card game breaking. I did it because if I use the word broken the same way others commonly do, then I no longer have a term to describe something that breaks the game, so I was making the distinction in order to better express myself, not particularly to insist that they are wrong to use it the way they were. I may have not been as clear as I wanted to, so for that I apologize.

 

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.



#44 Whitewing

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:54 AM

Once again I would like to draw attention from the Rune Plate discusson (since everyone already has their opinion on that, and they won't change) and more on to the intention of this thread (badly presented in the opening poster, but still) - stopping the power creep.

 

My intention with this topic is to rely the message to FFG that in a game like Descent power creep of cards (ALL cards now that I think about it) is not needed like in LCG. All expansions will sell nicely not because they have oh-my-god-super-powerful item/relic/monster/OL-card or whatever, but because they'll give new options, new scenarios and campaigns to play, in short variety. Whenever we get a game element that is significantly superior, an element we can always choose to pick, variety of choices will suffer. In the long run, the fun & enjoyment from the game for all players will suffer.

To stress again: the Rune Plate is not such a card. When I said 'broken' I did indeed mean an item that is not balanced when you compare it to it's alternatives, not 'game-breaking-winner-deciding'. It is however a precedence - the best armor for certain heroes in act I which means it's not a chance - it's a choice if you pick it up or not - and it's a 'do we buy rune plate' not 'do we buy any act I armor before act II' because rune plate is so good that you would be stupid to buy any other armor over it. Contrary to what some here say, Rune Plate doesn NOT have ANY restrictions - it works better in certain situations but there are NO penalties for using it (unlike 90% of the armor avaible in the game). What's next, an act I melee weapon that rolls red/red, red/yellow, or red/green? I don't want to see more of such items, of best-in-slot weapons/armors for other heroes/trinkets that are act I shop item cards.

 

It works two ways however. I also don't want to see act I monsters with act II stats. I don't want to see monsters so ridicullously powerful that they are always picked whenever they can be choosen as an open group, no matter the map/vicotry conditions. I don't want to see lvl 1 and 2 overlord cards that do what some lvl 3 OL cards do, but better. I don't want to see lieutenants/agents that decimate entire hero parties on their own in one-two turns.

 

TL;DR - no power creep, more focus on variety and new mechanics FFG. Descent products will sell like crazy without power creep, at least that's what interests me here and I belive I'm not alone on this among Descent players.

 

 

Do you know what an opportunity cost is? Every item in the game has a cost associated with using it.

 

I'm just not seeing the power creep. Some of the best items in the game came with the basic game box.


Edited by Whitewing, 31 March 2014 - 10:02 AM.


#45 griton

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:55 AM

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.

 

I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance.  The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied.  You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

 

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

 

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.



#46 Light Bright

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:31 AM

You can lose every single quest up until the finale and you can still win the overall campaign[/u], so get over the fact that heroes have a decent Act 1 armor. There's still a whole act left to play, and your playing field is level.[/quote]

@plainwhitebread
Don't even get me started on the "why" I don't like this game much. But I do like this part of your post. That part of your post describes the over all feel of the game well. Diablo race game where the end game is all that matters. In my opinion instead of a shop system they could of done something more interesting before the end game. Maybe explore to find gear instead. What's lurking around the corner is missing from about 90% of the game. 90% of the game should be exciting until the very end. Instead it's a diablo clone and a poor one. They should of stayed true to D1 but made it better,faster whatever their goal was in making D2.

"But the game is not designed like that" well 90% or so of the game is a total drag and could of been designed better. All I see with this game is they took exploration out and replaced it with some horrible "tactical" (questionable) machanic.

My friends don't even know I get on here and nit pick things but they know I don't like it much as long as they produce beer and chips I can tolerate it and get some laughs.

Power creep is just a small problem that can get worse.

Edited by Light Bright, 31 March 2014 - 11:07 AM.


#47 Light Bright

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:41 AM

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.

I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.


It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.


I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

Edited by Light Bright, 31 March 2014 - 10:43 AM.


#48 Whitewing

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:06 AM

 

 

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.

I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.


It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.


I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

 

 

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?

 

I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.

 

Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?



#49 Light Bright

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:11 AM

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.
I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?

I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.

Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?
Policing people how they talk, or want to talk is ridiculous. You obviously understand what people are saying but your nit picking what you think "game breaking" means? That's all I REALLY see. It's not always about caring it's about time and time limits the amount of care involved or subject matter. Most people do more in there lives then a game (not saying you don't). If it takes less time to punctuate,spell check ect ect. And people are limited on time then that's what people are going to do. You can call it what you like but its what people do no matter the country. Speaking of country it could also be because of poor English skills. I see people on here trying to say what they got to say but I find it hard to understand because they are still learning the language. If you want to teach grammar a game forum isn't the place. Their not here to learn grammar they have something else going on in there life that is teaching them. In fact you could be unintentionally insulting them. Not everybody is from the same culture as you and you should respect that.

Edited by Light Bright, 31 March 2014 - 11:58 AM.

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#50 Light Bright

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:57 AM

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.
I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.


I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.
 
If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?
 
I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.
 
Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?

I wouldn't call it a hobby personally for me. After all I did give it away for free.

#51 Whitewing

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:05 PM

 

 

 

 

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.
I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?

I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.

Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?
Policing people how they talk, or want to talk is ridiculous. You obviously understand what people are saying but your nit picking what you think "game breaking" means? That's all I REALLY see. It's not always about caring it's about time and time limits the amount of care involved or subject matter. Most people do more in there lives then a game (not saying you don't). If it takes less time to punctuate,spell check ect ect. And people are limited on time then that's what people are going to do. You can call it what you like but its what people do no matter the country. Speaking of country it could also be because of poor English skills. I see people on here trying to say what they got to say but I find it hard to understand because they are still learning the language. If you want to teach grammar a game forum isn't the place. Their not here to learn grammar they have something else going on in there life that is teaching them. In fact you could be unintentionally insulting them. Not everybody is from the same culture as you and you should respect that.

 

 

Firstly, if you're short on time because you have better things to do, then go do them. Secondly, if you don't even play this game and don't care about it, why are you here? Thirdly, cultural relativism is bull. Fourthly, I never once attempted to teach anyone grammar. I merely suggested that people who genuinely care about the things they do will put in some time and effort into doing it well. If you don't care about your posting, why should anyone else? I never stated any grammar rules or told someone to go learn it, or anything of the sort. You brought this up when you came out of nowhere bashing the very idea of posting well, with your inane notion that because this is a game forum and others are worse, we should just not even attempt to improve. Nobody is nitpicking grammatical mistakes or calling people out for poor English: my point is precisely that you took the time to say this:

 

"Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more."

 

I cannot disagree with this very notion more vehemently, and I don't care what culture you are from: that's an excuse. You quite literally said that you are not trying to post well. That's toxic to any discussion, regardless of what the topic is. If you don't care, go do something else with your time, you don't have to sit here telling others they are trying too hard with things they enjoy.


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#52 Nerd

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:34 PM

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.
I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?
I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.
Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?
Policing people how they talk, or want to talk is ridiculous. You obviously understand what people are saying but your nit picking what you think "game breaking" means? That's all I REALLY see. It's not always about caring it's about time and time limits the amount of care involved or subject matter. Most people do more in there lives then a game (not saying you don't). If it takes less time to punctuate,spell check ect ect. And people are limited on time then that's what people are going to do. You can call it what you like but its what people do no matter the country. Speaking of country it could also be because of poor English skills. I see people on here trying to say what they got to say but I find it hard to understand because they are still learning the language. If you want to teach grammar a game forum isn't the place. Their not here to learn grammar they have something else going on in there life that is teaching them. In fact you could be unintentionally insulting them. Not everybody is from the same culture as you and you should respect that.
 
Firstly, if you're short on time because you have better things to do, then go do them. Secondly, if you don't even play this game and don't care about it, why are you here? Thirdly, cultural relativism is bull. Fourthly, I never once attempted to teach anyone grammar. I merely suggested that people who genuinely care about the things they do will put in some time and effort into doing it well. If you don't care about your posting, why should anyone else? I never stated any grammar rules or told someone to go learn it, or anything of the sort. You brought this up when you came out of nowhere bashing the very idea of posting well, with your inane notion that because this is a game forum and others are worse, we should just not even attempt to improve. Nobody is nitpicking grammatical mistakes or calling people out for poor English: my point is precisely that you took the time to say this:
 
"Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more."
 
I cannot disagree with this very notion more vehemently, and I don't care what culture you are from: that's an excuse. You quite literally said that you are not trying to post well. That's toxic to any discussion, regardless of what the topic is. If you don't care, go do something else with your time, you don't have to sit here telling others they are trying too hard with things they enjoy.

Umm no that isn't I can't agree wit that.

#53 Nerd

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:35 PM

Likewise, easily over 90% of gamers here and abroad the internet use the term "broken" to mean "overpowered" (and perhaps occasionally "underpowered," but usually the former.) In fact, they often use the term to refer to a perceived imbalance when there may in fact not even be an actual imbalance in practice.
I'm sure they would use "broken" in a case where the game became literally unplayable, but that is not a prerequisite in common parlance. The way the majority of people use the word "broken" in the context of gaming is highly subjective, to the point where I don't really think any one definition can be universally applied. You know what they mean, let's just leave it at that.

It's better to make up a term for the unusual situation, rather than repurposing a common term in a way which will make what you're saying harder to understand.

I disagree. Just because most of these players speak in hyperbole doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. If you follow actual game design professionals (particularly for big-league games), they'll say the same thing Whitewing says.
Don't forget this is a forum. And not nearly as bad as some I've seen(Community wise). Most people here including me aren't typing or talking to the best of are abilities or even spell check. This is a game forum and nothing here is even all that important. If this was a resume' then people would CARE more.

If you don't even care enough about the things you love or do as a hobby, then why should anyone take anything you ever do seriously?
I try to make my posts legible and clear, and while I will readily state that my opinions are opinions and aren't always right, I do my best to argue my position in a way that others can know what I'm trying to actually say. Hyperbole runs counter to that notion, and is primarily a tool of rhetoric, which is counter productive.
Obviously you care enough to come on here and spend a portion of your day reading others posts and commenting yourself. If you care enough to do that, why not care enough to make the discussion the best it can be with a small amount of additional effort?
Policing people how they talk, or want to talk is ridiculous. You obviously understand what people are saying but your nit picking what you think "game breaking" means? That's all I REALLY see. It's not always about caring it's about time and time limits the amount of care involved or subject matter. Most people do more in there lives then a game (not saying you don't). If it takes less time to punctuate,spell check ect ect. And people are limited on time then that's what people are going to do. You can call it what you like but its what people do no matter the country. Speaking of country it could also be because of poor English skills. I see people on here trying to say what they got to say but I find it hard to understand because they are still learning the language. If you want to teach grammar a game forum isn't the place. Their not here to learn grammar they have something else going on in there life that is teaching them. In fact you could be unintentionally insulting them. Not everybody is from the same culture as you and you should respect that.

I respect this I'm an exchange student.

#54 BigBadUnshaved

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

Please stick to the topic of this thread before it gets closed because of an unrelated debate.

 

Whitewing, I do know what an opportunity cost is but I fail to see how it is uniquely Rune Plate's restriction. That can be said about any sort of purchase, be it other items or skills. This sort of 'restriction' applies to every other armor you've praised as 'better' then Rune Plate and you know it.


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#55 Whitewing

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:55 PM

Please stick to the topic of this thread before it gets closed because of an unrelated debate.

 

Whitewing, I do know what an opportunity cost is but I fail to see how it is uniquely Rune Plate's restriction. That can be said about any sort of purchase, be it other items or skills. This sort of 'restriction' applies to every other armor you've praised as 'better' then Rune Plate and you know it.

 

I'm aware of that. I'm not trying to argue that rune plate isn't good: it is. I'm just saying it's not as overpowered as you think it is. Given that you must have a rune for it to really be beneficial, and that the restrictions on other armors don't negatively impact many other characters, rune plate winds up on the higher end of armors, but is not the best armor. Frankly, I think armors in general might be on the weaker side of things.

 

Further, this discussion was primarily about power creep: I don't see any power creep. As far as I'm concerned, one of the absolute best weapons in act 1 (probably the best) is the crossbow, which is from the original box. I don't see new stuff being printed as being outright better than the original stuff.


Edited by Whitewing, 31 March 2014 - 12:57 PM.

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#56 Silverhelm

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:37 PM

I know in a two player hero game having Rune Plate and That relic armor from LoW (name escapes me)can be nasty. Heroes will loose lots a quests in a two player hero game but the end game is where it's at and that's a good start for the heroes. As far as power creep I don't think it's anymore power creep then plot decks. We played mostly 4 vs 1, 2 vs 1 mostly we played it to test plot decks.

I've played the crap out if this game and I can tell you winning quests and loosing quests really isn't as big a deal as you would think I've lost quests on purpose once just to see if I can win end game anyway I've seen heroes loose many quests and still win in the end. When i played as a hero we've lost quest purposely to gain as much coin as possible which for heroes is more important for their end game then (some) quest rewards that doesnt mean to forfiet each quest after coin retreival. Rune plate is just the starting point for a good Mage class to us when we played. I don't think it needs to be a act 2 item.

#57 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 06:15 PM


Further, this discussion was primarily about power creep: I don't see any power creep. As far as I'm concerned, one of the absolute best weapons in act 1 (probably the best) is the crossbow, which is from the original box. I don't see new stuff being printed as being outright better than the original stuff.

 

I'm under the impression it's the 'Move the Target 1 space' effect that makes the Crossbow so good, right? I see each set having good and bad weapons all the same; For every bad-ass Dragontooth Hammer, there's a ho-hum Steel Greatsword, and for every awesome armor like Rune Plate, there's an overpriced, ill-used Inscribed Robes.


Edited by PlainWhiteBread, 31 March 2014 - 06:17 PM.


#58 Whitewing

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:47 AM

 


Further, this discussion was primarily about power creep: I don't see any power creep. As far as I'm concerned, one of the absolute best weapons in act 1 (probably the best) is the crossbow, which is from the original box. I don't see new stuff being printed as being outright better than the original stuff.

 

I'm under the impression it's the 'Move the Target 1 space' effect that makes the Crossbow so good, right? I see each set having good and bad weapons all the same; For every bad-ass Dragontooth Hammer, there's a ho-hum Steel Greatsword, and for every awesome armor like Rune Plate, there's an overpriced, ill-used Inscribed Robes.

 

 

Right. That's one of the reasons the crossbow is so good. The other is that it's a one handed weapon so you can also use a shield or a stronger melee weapon if you like, it's surge effects are very powerful, and it happens to be an exotic weapon and a bow, making it extremely strong for Logan Lashley or treasure hunters (or both). It's very good even if you aren't one of those too. 

 

Many of the new cards in the expansions suck, and the good ones aren't much better than stuff that's already existed. Thus, this notion of power creep is basically non-existent.


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#59 Underworld40k

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:03 AM

Still with Whitewing on the power creep issue, the majority of expansion gear is comparable to the base game stuff, some stuff is better some stuff is worse.

If nothing scaled up people would complain that the base game gear was still better and that the expansions didn't add enough.



#60 Light Bright

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 11:33 AM

Whitewing?

Edit: "I am your farther" been wanting to do that for awhile...Power Creep yeah bad,bad stuff we need to be careful it could be contagious. I typed that because I had the TIME to.

Edited by Light Bright, 01 April 2014 - 11:42 AM.





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