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Ours for the Taking & Longship Maiden's Bane


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#1 valerio

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:53 AM

Hi i have a question:

If there are 2 players named A and B. A use "Ours for the Taking" (Any Phase: Choose 1 location that would kneel to trigger its effect. Copy that ability (paying any additional costs),without kneeling the location.) and choose Longship Maiden's Bane of player B(Challenges: During a challenge, kneel Longship Maiden's Bane to have it participate in the current challenge on your side as a character with 'cannot be killed' and X STR. X is the number of Warship cards you control.),Before he declaring it partecipate. My questions are:

1)The STR of Longship Maiden's Bane is equal to player A warship, or player B warship?

2) Can player B declaring it partecipate even it is partecipating at player A side?

Thanks for the answer :)


Edited by valerio, 23 March 2014 - 07:54 AM.


#2 ktom

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 08:44 AM

Note that the Longship is never "declared" as a participant. The ability makes it a participant without ever declaring it.

1) The X STR will always be determined by counting the number of warships controlled by the person who triggered the effect - in this case, Player A. Note that Maiden's Bane will not count itself in determining it's STR for A because A does not control it, even though it is participating in the challenge on A's side.

2) A card cannot participate in the same challenge twice. Player B would be prevented from using his Longship in the same challenge that A used the event first. (A, of course, could not use the event on B's already-participating Longship because it is a character at that point, not a location.)

#3 adamdynris

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:02 PM

An extra question for Longship Maiden's Bane.

When it is participating, it is a character but is it a unique Greyjoy character ??  Basicly it is a unique Greyjoy location.

Why? Can we target it when we use trigger who target Unique character or Greyjoy Charchter??


Edited by adamdynris, 24 March 2014 - 01:03 PM.


#4 ktom

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:14 PM

When participating, the card type changes to character - and only character. Things that target locations can no longer affect it, but things that target characters can. ONLY the card type changes. Everything else stays the same - House affiliation, uniqueness, etc. So yes, the "unique Greyjoy location" is considered a "unique Greyjoy character" after its ability has it participate in the challenge.

 

Out of curiosity, is there an argument someone has made for why it wouldn't be considered unique when participating as a character?



#5 adamdynris

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

Yesterday in a SC we have ( as TO ) to answer a question in a match. A players trigger an effect who target an unique Greyjoy character, I don't remeber wich one but the opponent argue that the Maiden's text say a character but not an unique character.

 

We take the good decision we consider Maiden as an unique Greyjoy character.



#6 mdc273

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:39 PM

Note that the Longship is never "declared" as a participant. The ability makes it a participant without ever declaring it.

1) The X STR will always be determined by counting the number of warships controlled by the person who triggered the effect - in this case, Player A. Note that Maiden's Bane will not count itself in determining it's STR for A because A does not control it, even though it is participating in the challenge on A's side.

2) A card cannot participate in the same challenge twice. Player B would be prevented from using his Longship in the same challenge that A used the event first. (A, of course, could not use the event on B's already-participating Longship because it is a character at that point, not a location.)

 

As Longship Maiden's Bane's name is self-referential text, wouldn't all instances of it be replaced by "Ours for the Taking", thus rendering copying of the effect pointless as the event goes to the discard pile before counting Str?



#7 ktom

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:57 PM

As Longship Maiden's Bane's name is self-referential text, wouldn't all instances of it be replaced by "Ours for the Taking", thus rendering copying of the effect pointless as the event goes to the discard pile before counting Str?

 

No. When the self-referential text of a card is copied or triggered by some other card/effect, the text is copied "as is" and the "self-referential" nature of the original effect does not "transfer" to the card triggering the copy. This is the reason Forging the Chain Jaqen H'ghar sucks (as detailed on p. 26 of the FAQ).

 

When using "Ours for the Taking" to copy Longship Maiden's Bane, the effect stops being self-referential. The effect continues to name Longship Maiden's Bane in its resolution; it does not name Ours for the Taking.



#8 Bomb

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:59 PM

Removed post.


Edited by Bomb, 24 March 2014 - 03:00 PM.





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