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Naomi O'Bannion + Snow Graves


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#1 Hybrid

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:42 PM

Can Naomi O'Bannion use her ability on a Tactic if Snow Graves is attached to the discard in question?



#2 bobby

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:48 PM

no, she can't. Because the card can not trigger without leaving the discard pile to do so. So snow graves shuts her ability down.



#3 marcoa.ramirez@gmail.com

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 03:02 PM

no, she can't. Because the card can not trigger without leaving the discard pile to do so. So snow graves shuts her ability down.

 

After the last FAQ, v3.3, she can, It is correct?

 

New FAQ say:

When a player plays an event from his discard pile, it does not remain in his discard pile, but rather is placed back in his discard pile after the action is complete. An event card whose effect triggers from the discard pile does not leave the discard pile

 

The event card not leave the discard pile



#4 jasonconlon

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:57 PM

Marcoa is correct - the rules have changed with the latest FAQ, and Naomi can now bypass Snow Graves.

#5 jhaelen

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 01:21 AM

...which totally sucks, btw. It's way too easy to create an (infinite) loop with her ability if the Tactics card cannot leave the discard. Who thought it was a good idea to give her an ability with the cost of readying her?



#6 marcoa.ramirez@gmail.com

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:04 AM

...which totally sucks, btw. It's way too easy to create an (infinite) loop with her ability if the Tactics card cannot leave the discard. Who thought it was a good idea to give her an ability with the cost of readying her?

 

I don't like this new ruling. Naomi + Snow Grave is too much overpower. Can banish almost any character and any support card.



#7 Serazu

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:14 PM

While we 're still at it, can someone tell me whether I 'll have to pay any costs for the event Naomi triggers? If she triggers Gang Warfare for instance, do I have to pay the cost of 3? Concerning Immurement, I'd say that I still have to drain the domain, since it's part of the card's effect. Correct?



#8 jasonconlon

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:17 PM

To 'trigger' an event means to activate the Action, Response, Forced Response or Disrupt of an event. This bypasses paying the card cost, but it does not bypass any additional costs specified by the triggered effect itself.

So for Gang Warfare, you do not have to pay the card cost of '3', but you do still have to "sacrifice a Criminal character".

Similarly for Immurement, you do not have to pay the card cost of '0' nor do you have to meet the Steadfast requirement of having 2x Syndicate resources in your pool, but you do still have to "drain a domain you control with the most resources".

Naomi O'Bannion, Ruthless Tactician (Denizens of the Underworld F1) reads:
Action: Ready Naomi O'Bannion to choose and trigger a Tactic event card in any discard pile. Then, put it on the bottom of its owner's deck.

Gang Warfare (Rituals of the Order F38) reads:
Cost: 3
Steadfast: 0
Loyal: No
Play during your operations phase.
Action: Sacrifice a Criminal character to exhaust each character with skill lower than X. X is the skill of the sacrificed Criminal character.


Immurement (Denizens of the Underworld F30) reads:
Cost: 0
Steadfast: 2x Syndicate
Loyal: No
Action: Drain a domain you control with the most resources to choose a support card or a non-Ancient One character an opponent controls. That card's owner attaches it to a domain of his choice as a resource.
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#9 Serazu

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:40 PM

Many thanks to you.


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#10 HomerJ

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:53 AM

I'm still really confused about how Snow Graves interacts with events in the discard pile, especially all the Yithian effects.

For example, if I have a Snow Graves on my discard pile:
Dark Passenger: If you discard this from the domain after draining the domain, since it is in the discard pile when you want to respond, it can't leave the pile, correct?

Things in the Ground: Since the text is an "Instead" we assumed that the discard cards never make the discard pile and so are put in play?

Interstellar Migration: So since the cost is to put the card on the bottom of the deck (which can't happen) then the action cannot be used?

Studying the Void: Can you 'trigger' this, but not 'play' this?

Speak to the Dead: Can you even play this? Or does it mill 4 cards and stop there?

Mists of Lethe: Can you pay the cost (Return the card in play to your hand) even tho you can't "to put Mists on the bottom of your deck"? This goes back to the "trigger" thing above. Basically, can you pay a cost even tho you can't resolve the effect?


Thanks in advance for any clarifications.

#11 jhaelen

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:39 AM

I agree about Dark Passenger, Things in the Ground, and Interstellar Migration.

 

Studying the Void seems to be completely unaffected by Snow Graves. I'm not sure what you're asking here...

 

Speak to the Dead can be played, but all four cards will stay in your discard.

 

Mists of Lethe, I'm not sure about. My guess would be you cannot use the action.



#12 HomerJ

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:52 AM

Everything was clarified to me this morning. In short, without an easily identified set of "play from the discard pile" cards, I was overthinking the "trigger" vs "play" text. As I've been lead to believe:

"Triggering" a card from the discard pile is not the same as "Playing" a card from the discard pile. As such, triggering does not momentarily remove the event from the discard pile and so is not affected by Snow Graves. Not to be confused with text of the cost or result of the effect being impacted by Snow Graves.

So to cover my own bases:

Dark Passenger: Dark Passenger in in the discard pile when the triggering effect for the Response occurs, which means it then cannot be used if Snow Graves is on the discard pile.

Things in the Ground: "Instead" is a replacement effect. The cards never actually make it to the discard pile so Snow Graves doesn't interact.

Interstellar Migrations: Since putting IM on the bottom of your deck is part of the cost, and you can't pay the cost with Snow Graves on the discard, the Action cannot be successfully triggered.

Studying the Void: This is a 'trigger' not a 'play' and so is completely usable with a Snow Graves in play.

Speak to the Dead: You complete the first part (mill 4) but you are unable to complete the rest.

Mists of Lethe: You can pay the cost, but the effect (separated by the word "to") cannot be resolved. Checking to see if this is a legal play, since you could use the action but the effect would be cancelled. I don't know if there is a "you can only pay the cost for an effect if the effect can be resolved" in Cthulhu. Looking into it.




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