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#1 ClanNatioy

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:24 PM

This game has me interested in starting a lcg. The card count has me a little concerned though. It says over 200 cards split across 7 factions. Depending on how many copies there are of each type of card this could lead to there being not very many options for each faction.

 

So there are 7 warlords that always have their set of 8 cards. That's 63 cards right there.

 

Worst case scenario that leaves us with 138 cards (201-63=136). Divide that into 7 factions gives us 19.7 cards per faction. Then depending on how many copies of each card comes with that could give us any where between 6.6 (if 3 is the max you could include of any card) to 19.7 unique cards per faction.

 

Best case scenario after warlords and their groups we are left with 236 cards (299-63=236). Divide that into 7 factions gives us 33.7 cards per faction. Then with multiple copies of each card that gives us any where between 11 to 33.7 unique cards per faction.

 

This might not mean anything to a lot of people but I found it kind of interesting to crunch the numbers. Also it has me really hoping that when they say over 200 cards they really mean nearly 300. Also I think with this low of a card count that only one copy of each card is included they only bummer about this is getting all the worthless extra stuff you don't need when you buy sets 2 and 3. It seems that right out of the box being able to do a pure faction deck will not be possible and even then options will be limited. I really hope they don't go with the dreaded model of some cards getting 1 copy some having 3.

 

I am curious how the expansions will work for this game. I wonder if they will do the usual lcg thing of monthly 60 card packs which would give us 8 or 9 cards per faction and then if they come with 3 of each card that would give us 3 unique cards for each faction per expansion pack. Or I wonder if they will do what they are now doing with the Call of Cthulhu lcg and just do big box expansions.

 

Does any one know how the card spread will be in the starter box? Or am I just going to have to wait for the updates because any one that does know cant say rightnow?


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#2 BD Flory

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:52 PM

Anyone that does know can't say, I'm sure.

 

I wouldn't count on a lot of flexibility out of the core box, though, and certainly not with only one copy. The last two LCG releases, Star Wars and Netrunner, playing with a single box has basically been, "grab all the cards for your faction, plus the some or all of the neutral cards." In SW, this didn't even give you a legal 50 card deck.

 

My bet is it'll be like Cthulhu, where playing out of the box will mean grabbing a warlord and all the cards for his faction, plus the non-loyal cards for one of the two available ally races. I imagine this will probably add up to around 50 cards.

 

We already know that "some" of the signature squad cards are duplicated, although this might be a special case since there's no customization in the signature squads. Still, I'm pretty confident predicting it'll be a mix of 3x, 2x, and 1x cards.

 

As for chapter packs, I think the big box only move for Cthulhu is probably a response to diminishing sales. The small expansions are still going strong for the other LCGs. My guess is they'll each include 1 warlord + signature squad, plus 3 copies each of 17 unique cards spread across the various factions.



#3 Alita_99

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:31 PM

"Android: Netrunner" has seven factions; three runners and four corps. You could build a complete deck right out the box, and even do some deckbuilding. I trust "Warhammer 40,000: Conquest" will allow for head to head play with just the core set. FFG has not mentioned neutral cards (yet), but they could reasonably exist.

I would gladly pay double for a core set with a full playset (i.e. whatever the max number of copies you can include in a deck is) of every card, but I just know that would be asking too much. There's too much money to be made selling multiple core sets. I haven't bought a second core set for "A Game of Thrones", "The Lord of the Rings" or "Android: Netrunner", and I won't do it for "Warhammer 40,000: Conquest" either. I won't support that sort of marketing. I like the LCG model except the core sets. At least release a core set expansion, with one or two additional copies of cards that are included as singles or doubles in the base core set.
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#4 TragicTheBlathering

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:05 AM

this is a problem in all LCGs. Especially the ones with large factions counts. The worst being LoTR. Still I do not think it will be much of a problem. A single AP in CoC might only have 1-2 cards for a individual faction. LoTR has 9 cards total and only about 15 or somthign in a Deluxe. So in a game like this with many factions I would expect there to be a slow card pool increase.

 

We do not know much about the deck building but I would suggest that this will be more worse that the other big name lcgs. Still it is really to early to tell, there could be only squads released an no individual cards for texample.

 

I think this is a non-issue. It is like complaining that you need to roll dice in backgammon. This is how LCGs are, how they all are. Card pools doi expand slowly in this format, but this can be a good thing as well as players can assimilate new cards with out overload. I think there are strong arguments that the monthly pack idea is in fact to fast. Either way it will not take long for the card pool to grow.


Edited by TragicTheBlathering, 20 March 2014 - 12:08 AM.


#5 Snowhive

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:17 AM

Thanks for crunching the numbers. That was my thoughts too. Especially the monthly expansions are very small, if they give equally all 7 factions card. If so, there are 8 cards per faction. That left 4 cards - my guess 1 planet card and 3 neutral cards. That would like LotR, there you have 1 neutral card (3 copies) in s the small expansions.

 

There will be - and there is TragicTheBlathering right - a slow progression of the card pool. But that is a part of the game, isn't it?

 

So more factions will slowing the progression of the card pool for the starting factions. I don't thing that will be very likely. OK, they can change the alignment wheel, but that will make some legal decks illegal....



#6 Snowhive

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:29 AM

Ok, another point for crunching the numbers. On the product page you can see, you will need 5 packs of standard sleeves. That makes max 250 card. I guess that the planet and playing cards are the same size. There are 10 planets card, so wer is a max of 240 player cards....

 

So, if each fraction gets a equal number of card, they get up to 34 cards per faction.

 

You also need one pack of Mini American sleeves - I guess for the 40 token cards.


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#7 dboeren

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:41 AM

The Core set is a tiny little fraction of the whole game, with the rest of it appearing gradually over the course of perhaps a decade or so.  Don't be so focused on this one fairly small piece of the bigger puzzle.



#8 Internutt

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

For monthly packs:

2x1 copy of commander (or just 1) for 9 or 18 cards. Leaving 42 in a pack for the usual card types for general deck building. Meaning that gives us around 2 cards per faction in each pack.

Do we even know if there are neutral cards yet?

Can't wait to learn more about the game as time goes on.

#9 ClanNatioy

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

The Core set is a tiny little fraction of the whole game, with the rest of it appearing gradually over the course of perhaps a decade or so.  Don't be so focused on this one fairly small piece of the bigger puzzle.

 

Yeah some people would be okay with this. I would rather pay more and get a starter set that has many more cards and allows for pure faction customization right from the begining as opposed to having to wait a year before that is possible.



#10 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:53 AM

There is nothing to say you won't be able to build faction pure using just the core set in multiple copies.

#11 ClanNatioy

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:05 PM

There is nothing to say you won't be able to build faction pure using just the core set in multiple copies.

 

Yeah I would be okay but you're paying money for all the extra tokens, planet cards, warlords and their cards, and token cards that you don't need any more. But even with this I would still consider buying multiple core sets as long as their was only one copy of each of the remaining cards. I don't want to buy a core set multiple times and get less and less cards I can use with each purchase. I really can't stand how FFG packages their customizable games and if they have 1 copy of some cards, 2 of some, and 3 of others I will refuse to buy the game.

 

Does any one know how the cards were distributed in Netrunner? this being their newest LCG will give me an idea, maybe, of how they will package this one. Just want to know so I don't get my hopes too high.



#12 BD Flory

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:08 PM

Netrunner was a mix of 3x, 2x, and 1x cards in the core. Bet on this being the same.



#13 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:09 PM

There is nothing to say you won't be able to build faction pure using just the core set in multiple copies.

 
Yeah I would be okay but you're paying money for all the extra tokens, planet cards, warlords and their cards, and token cards that you don't need any more. But even with this I would still consider buying multiple core sets as long as their was only one copy of each of the remaining cards. I don't want to buy a core set multiple times and get less and less cards I can use with each purchase. I really can't stand how FFG packages their customizable games and if they have 1 copy of some cards, 2 of some, and 3 of others I will refuse to buy the game.
 
Does any one know how the cards were distributed in Netrunner? this being their newest LCG will give me an idea, maybe, of how they will package this one. Just want to know so I don't get my hopes too high.

Netrunner is the second newest. It comes with cards in 1,2 & 3 count. There was only like 9 cards that came in 1 ofs. Star Wars is the newest LCG and came with only some of the neutral sets in duplicates in one core set. To get a full ANR collection you need 3 cores. Star Wars you need 2.

#14 Internutt

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:40 PM

For Netrunner, most buy extra core sets on Amazon for $20 during sales. Best way to get a complete set if you really must have one.

The only time I've bought 3 cores was for AGoT, because I was effectively halving the cost by splitting factions up between myself and a friend.

For any LCG, before buying a second core set, follow this advice:

1. Play the core game enough to learn the different factions/cards/strategies.
2. If you find yourse and wanting more variety, simply wait for the expansions to start coming out.
3. Deck build. If there's one or two cards you really want more copies of for a strategy you want to play, that is your key signal that it is something you want.
4. Either support a local game shop or buy online for a cheaper price.
5. I wouldn't recommend buying 2 cores at first seeing as you don't know that you will end up enjoying the game.

#15 ClanNatioy

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:07 PM

5. I wouldn't recommend buying 2 cores at first seeing as you don't know that you will end up enjoying the game.

 

I mean I would definitely do research and read the rules before I bought that game to get a good idea if I'd like it. But as customers we vote with our dollars. If I say on these forums that I don't like the model x1, x2, x3 copies of various cards in a box set and then go out and buy 1 or 2 core sets any way it is defeating the purpose and the companies wont care that I don't like this model because they already have my money.


Edited by ClanNatioy, 21 March 2014 - 01:08 PM.


#16 dboeren

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:15 PM

Yeah some people would be okay with this. I would rather pay more and get a starter set that has many more cards and allows for pure faction customization right from the begining as opposed to having to wait a year before that is possible.

 

 

That's available.  What you do is wait a year and buy it all at once.  Then it's new to you and you can call all of it your "starter".

 

If you don't like the concept of a card game that is gradually added to over time then all I can really say is that LCGs aren't your bag, or at least new ones aren't.



#17 booored

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:35 PM

I am going on record saying that I expect it to be 2 copies of every card like star wars and you will need to buy 2 core sets for a full set as well as saying there will be neutral cards.

As a consumer, I would like the monthly packs to be completely removed form the LCG system and just have quarterly or 1/2 yearly delux expansions adding 150 cards at a time.

Edited by booored, 21 March 2014 - 02:36 PM.

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#18 ClanNatioy

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:53 PM

If you don't like the concept of a card game that is gradually added to over time then all I can really say is that LCGs aren't your bag, or at least new ones aren't.

 

 

You may be right there. I do prefer games that offer a complete highly competitive experience right from the start and aren't expanded that often. But I do like asymmetrical card games a lot and I used to play a lot of 40k so this one did catch my eye and will probably just watch as things develop and see if it is for me. I still can't stand how FFG packages things though. 2 of everything while better then 1, 2, or 3 copies of things is still not ideal and would rather have a core set that included 3 of every card for $50 or $60.



#19 booored

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:11 PM

this game is not asymmetrical
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#20 dboeren

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 09:32 AM

I think he means asymmetrical in the boardgame sense - that each side has a different deck.  Not asymmetrical as in Netrunner.

 

Personally, I think a Netrunner-like "lumpy" distribution is more likely than 2x of every card but we'll see.






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