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Tome of Chaos Undivided


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#1 Chaplain

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:44 AM

Although unaligned Tome is just a distant possibility for the time being, we already can discuss anything we would love to see in supplement dedicated to The Pantheon.
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#2 wabbitking

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:15 PM

I would like

1rules forconverting rouge trader ships/ship rules so we can pirate better.

2 rules for the zombie plauge if not in tome of decay.

3 obliterator rules.

4 more gifts from the gods and mutations.

5 chaos ogryn/ratlings.

and thats my current wishlist mostly 1 2 and 5.



#3 wabbitking

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:35 PM

ps 7 and incentive to play unaligned and long term mind control for psykers



#4 BrotharTearer

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:37 PM

More reasons to play Unaligned I'd want to see. Currently there aren't many.

 

There's only two reasons I can think of. You want to roll twice for Gifts. Or you want to use Exalted psychic powers (which forces you into Unalignment). One's a small boon, the other isn't really an incentment — it's more of a 'you've got to eat some crap to use these cool things'.



#5 Calgor Grim

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:22 PM

Isn't that the point though? Unaligned is for those who want to play the powers of the four chaos gods and walk a very fine line...you already have benefits being unaligned in that skills all cost a moderately priced amount whatever you choose,so that you can freely invest down any path without expending a fortune and that you are not bound with any specific penalties by being aligned to any one god? The ways of Chaos seem to be that you are encouraged to side with a single god and be blessed by the powers that loyalty to them does bring.


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#6 wabbitking

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:29 PM

yeah but that does not make most people want to stay unaligned while story wise many many people are unaligned. maybe some weapons made for only unaligned or a unaligned version of gift of the gods .



#7 BrotharTearer

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:51 PM

you already have benefits being unaligned in that skills all cost a moderately priced amount whatever you choose,so that you can freely invest down any path without expending a fortune and that you are not bound with any specific penalties by being aligned to any one god?

 

It's only a benefit if you don't know in what direction you want to take your character. Any smart (read: anyone who wants to optimize even a little) player wouldn't suddenly buy expensive opposed cost advances that doesn't in particular work with the focus of a character. If you want to become aligned to Tzeentch but get a Khorne or Nurgle tier 3 talent, you buy it before you become aligned as to avoid taking a net loss in XP. And even then it's cheaper in the long run than what any Unaligned character would need to pay.

 

There just isn't many character concepts/builds that benefit from being Unaligned. Even jack-of-all-trades (if you could call any kind of build that) doesn't really benefit from it, because that makes you suboptimal anyway — in which case it wouldn't matter that you got any "benefits" in the first place.

 

At the end of the day, walking the "fine line between all the gods" is self-punishment from a mechanical standpoint. Until such a point you have 70+ Infamy/Corruption, a shitload of XP and you're a psyker. It's then, and only then, you are rewarded. Of course, you and your warband might not survive it when you start to throw around those big extremely dangerous Exalted powers.


Edited by BrotharTearer, 18 March 2014 - 04:59 PM.


#8 Calgor Grim

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:51 PM

Speak for yourself, the cheap xp costs are rather good :)

I don't see the logic though of weapons for the unaligned or how they would be any way near powerful. Are most weapons with potency not normal items with a bound daemonic entity within? And are not all daemons in some way a figment or a creation of one of the four gods? How can something only be used for someone without an alignment at all then? You don't get a neutral daemon.

 

New Gifts of the gods I wouldn't mind...however I tend to come up with a fair few random ones anyway.


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#9 Calgor Grim

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:53 PM

 

you already have benefits being unaligned in that skills all cost a moderately priced amount whatever you choose,so that you can freely invest down any path without expending a fortune and that you are not bound with any specific penalties by being aligned to any one god?

 

It's only a benefit if you don't know in what direction you want to take your character. Any smart (read: anyone who wants to optimize even a little) player wouldn't suddenly buy expensive opposed cost advances that doesn't in particular work with the focus of a character. If you want to become aligned to Tzeentch but get a Khorne or Nurgle tier 3 talent, you buy it before you become aligned as to avoid taking a net loss in XP.

 

 It does however help for characters who wish to be multifunctional, if your GM gives you the experience and opportunity rewards to manage it that is.


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#10 wabbitking

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:19 PM

they could be made by wordbearers who see undivided as the one true faith of the chaos gods and there are some unaligned weapons ( or they don't list what kind of deamon there is in it) dark blade for instants is a soul eating blade more so than usual.

 

there is also mark of chaos undivided its just the ususal chaos star they could have that.

maybe some talents that only be got from being undivided.



#11 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:16 PM

The concept of "Undivided" doesn't really exist in modern Chaos fluff. You'll notice that it's almost always written "unaligned", and never "Undivided" (as a proper noun). The idea of workshiping Chaos in it's co-called pure undivided form pretty much died when the 3.5 Codex went away. Now everyone picks a side, even if they constantly switch sides.

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#12 wabbitking

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:29 PM

undivided sounds cooler so that's why I use it. and switching sides often is how furies are born

and wordbearers never switch gods they are undivided or unalined as you call them



#13 Traejun

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:50 AM

The concept of "Undivided" doesn't really exist in modern Chaos fluff. You'll notice that it's almost always written "unaligned", and never "Undivided" (as a proper noun). The idea of workshiping Chaos in it's co-called pure undivided form pretty much died when the 3.5 Codex went away. Now everyone picks a side, even if they constantly switch sides.
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#14 Calgor Grim

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:51 AM

Abaddon isn't undivided though, he's unaligned and just plays with the powers of the four Chaos Gods, receiving blessings and boons from each of them. They likely only allow it since he is someone of such strength and potential that sharing a pawn is in their best interests like they did with Horus. Any other being they would not bother considering sharing it with another god. At no point though has he been blessed with powers that are not sourced from one of the four though.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 19 March 2014 - 02:52 AM.

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#15 Amroth

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:53 AM

I would like

1rules forconverting rouge trader ships/ship rules so we can pirate better.

2 rules for the zombie plauge if not in tome of decay.

3 obliterator rules.

4 more gifts from the gods and mutations.

5 chaos ogryn/ratlings.

and thats my current wishlist mostly 1 2 and 5.

 

For number 5 you could always start off with Ogryns or Ratlings in Only War, play a little bit nasty and then convert them over when they reach the ol' 100 corruption threshold.

Beware Squee, the Ratling Champion of Khorne!!!

On another note though, I know he is now out of flavour, but I wouldn't mind the book dedicating a bit of space to the 5th Chaos God Malal. Perhaps gifts and mutations that suit characters in his service, his own mortal and daemonic servants, as well as his motivations and of those that serve him. I like the idea of taking on all comers, Corpse Emperor and Chaos Gods both.

Also a bit more on powerful Chaos entities that don't have allegiance to any of the current powers or whose masters have fallen over the aeons. I did read somewhere about the former 4th Chaos God who perished before the birth of Slaanesh. Don't know if that was true or not but if so would love to find out more about that (although maybe just on here if anyone has any idea as opposed to in the undivided tome).



#16 Amroth

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:55 AM

Abaddon isn't undivided though, he's unaligned and just plays with the powers of the four Chaos Gods, receiving blessings and boons from each of them. They likely only allow it since he is someone of such strength and potential that sharing a pawn is in their best interests like they did with Horus. Any other being they would not bother considering sharing it with another god. At no point though has he been blessed with powers that are not sourced from one of the four though.

 

My lore is pretty old but didn't he have something along the lines of the Mark of Chaos Ascendant (or undivided or something like that)?

 

That would suggest to me he is undivided?



#17 Vandegraffe

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:49 AM

Excuse me, Amroth, but isn't Malal retconned out of the fluff just like the Squats? 

 

... actually, it may even be worse than that.  If I remember correctly, Malal had an issue with copyright infringement, which GW lost.  (The Lexicanum entry lists "Malice" instead of Malal.  Of course, we all know how accurate Lexicanum is.  *cough*)

 

It's late and hard to think.  Anyone know the details?

 

Cheers,

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#18 Amroth

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:27 AM

It certainly is probable. My knowledge of the fluff tends to trail off after 3rd edition table top so it may be a tad bit rusty ;-).

I wasn't aware of the Malal copyright infringement, which would explain why he is more commonly referred to as Malice now, when he is actually mentioned.

 

Still would be interesting to play a servant of the Renegade Chaos God, or of some other powerful entity that isn't actually tied to one of the big four.

I remember reading somewhere that the powers in the warp flow and flux over time and new powers can rise to overthrow old ones. Of course this all happens over such an incredibly long time frame (I.E. Aeons) that to human perception it just appears that there's always been the big 4 (or 3 with that young hooligan Slaanesh).



#19 Calgor Grim

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:15 AM

 

Abaddon isn't undivided though, he's unaligned and just plays with the powers of the four Chaos Gods, receiving blessings and boons from each of them. They likely only allow it since he is someone of such strength and potential that sharing a pawn is in their best interests like they did with Horus. Any other being they would not bother considering sharing it with another god. At no point though has he been blessed with powers that are not sourced from one of the four though.

 

My lore is pretty old but didn't he have something along the lines of the Mark of Chaos Ascendant (or undivided or something like that)?

 

That would suggest to me he is undivided?

 

I've only got an old copy of the codex (from around 2007 so I think thats 4th ed?) but the wording of the mark:

 

 

Mark of Chaos Ascendant
Abaddon has attained the favour of each of the Chaos powers in turn, and has proved the equal of his mentor Horus in that he has resisted becoming the pawn of any individual patron. Over the millennia Abaddon has melded the Marks of Chaos granted to him, and now bears a unique Mark that combines all of the gifts. (then goes on to describe what tabletop effects it has etc)

 

 That does not state that he is undivided, just that he is unaligned and has resisted ending up serving one of them. The mark is the amalgamation of all other marks but is functionally the same as having one of each.


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#20 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:31 AM

Excuse me, Amroth, but isn't Malal retconned out of the fluff just like the Squats? 

 

Yeah, he is. The only references to Malal come in incredibly oblique ways, such as the Sons of Malice Chapter, and the Dreadaxe. That sort of thing.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.





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