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House of Dreams question


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#1 No1Sciguy

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:52 AM

If the location chosen for House of Dreams is bounced back to hand or discarded from play and another copy is played, is that copy still "Immune to opponents' non-plot card effects?"  I can see both sides of an argument for and against here.  Is there a ruling or something in FAQ that would make this clear? Thanks for any help in advance.



#2 Khudzlin

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:18 AM

Once a card has left play, any lasting effect on it ceases and any copy of that card entering play is considered a different card. However, I can't find anything about it in the FAQ.



#3 No1Sciguy

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:33 AM

Right that is how I see it.  However, his argument is that since it is the location he chose as his agenda and the agenda states that the card gains those words all copies in his deck would have immunity not just the first card in play.


Edited by No1Sciguy, 18 March 2014 - 02:14 PM.


#4 ktom

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:01 PM

The "something concrete" is the text of House of Dreams itself. The card reads:

 

"After you announce House of Dreams as your Agenda, choose from your deck a unique, in-House, non-limited location. That location starts the game in play and gains the text: 'Immune to opponents' non-plot card effects.'"

 

The words I emphasized ("choose" and "that location") are the key. When you "choose" a card, you are targeting it (FAQ p. 14 & 15, the word "choose" always denotes a target). When you target something, you are working on that card only, not on all cards with the same title. This is further emphasized by the fact that "that location" (i.e., the one you chose/targeted) receives the benefits of agenda - and not all cards with the same title (compare to the wording on Bay of Ice or The Kingsroad, for example).

 

If those who don't agree with your interpretation of HoD push back on this fundamental fact of the game, here's an example to help clarify it: The card Dragon Attack reads "Any Phase: Kneel a Dragon character to choose a character. Until the end of the phase, that character gets -2 STR and is killed if its STR is 0." You have 3 copies of Knight of Harrenhal in play (Stark character, 2-STR).

 

Q1: I play Dragon Attack and choose Knight of Harrenhal #1. Do Knights #2 and #3 die as well? (No, because by telling me to "choose" a character, the effect is limited to the chosen card, not to all cards with the same title.)

 

Q2: After I play Dragon Attack on Knight #1, you play Narrow Escape to bring all characters killed and/or discarded that phase back into play. It's not the end of the phase yet, so does the lasting effect of Dragon Attack, which was supposed to apply all phase, kill Knight #1 all over again? (No, because once it leaves play, it no longer interacts with the effects and is thus no longer recognized as "that" card, "chosen" as the target of the effect, even if it returns to play before the end of the effect's duration.)

 

 

Anyway, that's the long explanation for why the text of HoD is concrete enough within the context of the game. If they need something more than (sorry to say...) "common sense," you'll have to send it to FFG with through the "Rules Questions" link in the fine print at the bottom of the page.


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#5 No1Sciguy

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:15 PM

Thank you for the clarification.






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