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A Difficult Decision


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#1 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:37 PM

I'm not at all interested in what AoR is touted to be (namely the rebellion/civil war aspect of Star Wars). Truthfully, I didn't purchase EoE for Star Wars. I wanted the core game system and the themes presented in the CRB, and I've been pleased with my decision to make that purchase.

 

I would like to be able to provide continuous availability to Force users through the FS Emergent and into FaD, but I find it absolutely impossible to justify purchasing the AoR CRB for maybe 8-10 pages of content. I'm also skeptical about dredging up a beta copy from Yoda knows where on the internet, particularly if the Force material contained within has been overhauled during/since the beta- I tracked down the final beta update (#4), and saw nothing there to indicate this has been the case, but I'm not at all certain that update is all-inclusive.

 

What (very) little I know of FS Emergent abilities (from following the forums and seeing the occasional mention) has really piqued my interest, and that is what has caused my quandary.

 

My questions: Is there likely to be too much a gap between FS Exile and the material presented in FaD with regards to continuity of Force character development? Is the material for FS Emergent crucial to keeping a Force using character "on par" with his/her peers until the release of FaD? 

 

I know if I were playing a Force using character, the idea of being "stuck in the water" until FaD is released is far from appealing. I simply have reservations about the effort and expenditure required to acquire a beta copy (plus I kinda feel "dirty" giving above-board sales the slip) and the usefulness of its content.

 

Thanks in advance for your input. 


Edited by Brother Orpheo, 12 March 2014 - 06:38 PM.

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#2 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:16 PM

Just guessing, but I'll say that you'll have no need for AoR to get use out of a FSEx moving into FaD.


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#3 2P51

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:17 PM

I think most people like Emergent because of the more direct path to the Force Rating pip in the tree.  Honestly I like Exile better as a tree.


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#4 SSand

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:23 PM

It sounds like you are not interested in the current FFG Star Wars games.  The third game is to be the Force related game so I'd wait for that. 

 

I am the complete opposite of you.  In all the games I ever played that touched on Star Wars in the past (WEG, WotC, etc) it was the forces users (Jedi/Sith) that munchkined and utterly destroyed the game. 

 

It looks like FFG wants to avoid that and so has decided leave out the force part (except a couple of quasi-useful ones as appeasement and to defuse the possibility of being drowned in tears) of the initial game.

 

Once EotE and AoR have been put out and have had the chance to be thoroughly exercised and tested by actual gamers, then they will put out the Force.   The only way to really design a game using full-fledged Force users is to have a solid bedrock system to use as a reference. 

 

I think FFG’s approach will be the closest one to give gamers a good solid Star Wars game that doesn’t get sucked down into munchkin style power gaming.  

 

But, It isn’t out yet.  If you are mostly or solely interested in Jedi/Sith/Force Users, then your game has not been written yet.   But it is coming….


Edited by SSand, 14 March 2014 - 12:05 PM.

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#5 Internutt

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:17 PM

Unfortunately you still have about 6 months before the F&D beta is released. If you can find the AoR beta for cheap, it's well worth the purchase. I don't recall any significant changes to force trees, so you could very easily just spend the smaller price for the beta for that content.

The trees do increase force rating and give new powers, which are always nice. There is a power increa and to the AoR skills, EotE force exile is about sensing and hiding while AoR is much more combat focussed in some respects.

You also will have no way to use lightsabers either.

#6 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:27 PM

It sounds like you are not interested in the current FFG Star Wars games.

Just to be clear, your assertion is far from correct. I am actually very pleased with EoE, and intend to gather its supplements as and when I am able. I'm just not interested in what AoR is presenting ("I don't need your civil war.") I am in no way an irrational Force fan, but I want any Force using characters in my game to have access to continuity of development, hence my main questions. All things considered, I'm actually very impressed with FFG's approach to Force use.

 

It may or may not be important for others to know, but I feel it necessary to point out I've played WEG's SWRPG just once in 1990, and it was the group, not the system that drove me away from it- I sat down, was handed a pre-gen droid, suffered through the squeakiest in-character Ewok voice of all time, squeaked by a "grown" man (he may have been 4' 8" at most) that looked exactly like a partially-shaved Ewok, gritted my teeth for ten minutes, and excused myself from the game. (I still have nightmares...)

 

EoE has crossed a monumental hurdle in just getting me interested, believe me.

 

Like I said, I don't necessarily want EoE and FaD for Star Wars- I can relable things to suit- but I do want them for the core system and themes. I'm just trying to make sure that "skipping" AoR doesn't lead to critical Force using character development setbacks or stall-outs (barring a player that absolutely can't continue living without being able to bounce off the walls like some Jim Carrey Mask version of Yoda).

 

Incidentally, there already exists an in-setting mechanic for sobering Force users- it's use is illegal, meaning a death sentence or worse, and it put the lives of your fellow fringers straight into the crapper by association. 

 

Access to the additional Force Rating "pip" that 2P51 spoke of was also something that troubled me- but I may (or may not) leave that to the facility of a mentor/holocron fragment.

 

Lightsabers are the crutch of talentless hacks. But no, seriously, EoE suggests "inventing" your own skills, so not being able to use lightsabers isn't an issue. 


Edited by Brother Orpheo, 12 March 2014 - 08:29 PM.

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#7 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:14 PM

Incidentally, there already exists an in-setting mechanic for sobering Force users- it's use is illegal, meaning a death sentence or worse, and it put the lives of your fellow fringers straight into the crapper by association. 

 

Well, according to Edge page 325, only 2% of the habitable systems of the galaxy have sufficient population for Imperial membership and only 0.05% are fully represented and integrated into the Empire. That means that about 98% of the galaxy is operating with almost no Imperial oversight. If you're truly playing a fringe game, then there's a great deal of room to roam without worrying about covering up.


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#8 aramis

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:22 PM

Unfortunately you still have about 6 months before the F&D beta is released. If you can find the AoR beta for cheap, it's well worth the purchase. I don't recall any significant changes to force trees, so you could very easily just spend the smaller price for the beta for that content.


It's only 5 months to GenCon; both betas (and the prior 40K betas) all seem to have been GenCon releases.

#9 2P51

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:37 PM

 

Unfortunately you still have about 6 months before the F&D beta is released. If you can find the AoR beta for cheap, it's well worth the purchase. I don't recall any significant changes to force trees, so you could very easily just spend the smaller price for the beta for that content.


It's only 5 months to GenCon; both betas (and the prior 40K betas) all seem to have been GenCon releases.

 

155 days................but who's counting.................


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#10 Jegergryte

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:16 AM

I don't think you'll be missing much by skipping AoR, although I do suspect you'll miss more than "8-10" pages of new material. There's the new species, careers, gear, vehicles... And probably a lot more on the galaxy, new planet gazetteers, but if these things are of less importance, which is a fair position I think, the jury is still out over here (although as a completionist so I will probably get it eventually), then you won't lose much, except two force powers and the FSEm talent tree.
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#11 Internutt

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:33 AM

Unfortunately you still have about 6 months before the F&D beta is released. If you can find the AoR beta for cheap, it's well worth the purchase. I don't recall any significant changes to force trees, so you could very easily just spend the smaller price for the beta for that content.


It's only 5 months to GenCon; both betas (and the prior 40K betas) all seem to have been GenCon releases.
155 days................but who's counting.................

I was going by Beta books appearing at retailers/FFG online stores rather than the limited Gencon release. Pretty sure most didn't get the beta until September or October time.

#12 copperbell

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:02 AM

Isn't at least one of the force powers in AoR also in the Edge of the Empire core rules?

 

I'm slowly picking up the supplements to Edge and have the AoR Beta, have to admit I'm wondering how the F&D is going to be handled.

 

I don't agree about Lightsabers being their own skill, until I see a set of talent trees specifically limited to force users I won't change my mind there I'm actually wondering why the Empire doesn't issue licenses for weapons so they have a legitimate reason for coming down hard on anyone carrying unlicensed weapons within the Empire and have this idea that you can get a license for a lightfoil or a lightsaber in the Tapani Sector as long as you've trained at one of their duellist schools since the lightsaber is a weapon from a far more civilised age... :)  I just don't believe only Jedi should be able to wield them...



#13 Jegergryte

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:35 AM

Move is the force power that appears in both AoR and EotE. EotE then have sense and influence, whereas AoR has Enhance and Forsee.

 

Lighsabers having their own skill doesn't mean that only Jedi can wield them, it's not like skills cannot be trained if you don't have it in your career/specialisation list. I'd say they'd be very different to wield than any other melee weapon - and I'd also say there's no proper real world equivalent to compare with either, so it's hard to really make sense of how it would be to use it.

 

I do agree that Lightfoils should be licensed and possible to obtain in the Tapani sector, but I'm unsure about proper Lightsabers - those are more powerful as far as I've come to understand at least, and is constructed differently.


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#14 2P51

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:40 AM

I would think a Lightsaber would be extremely difficult and dangerous to use.  You're basically waving no weight around, so there is little to 'feel' and judge positioning with.  You certainly don't want that sucker touching you at all, so being as aware of the position of your own weapon in relation to yourself, as well as your enemy's, would be both paramount and quite difficult.


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#15 aramis

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 11:53 AM

Unfortunately you still have about 6 months before the F&D beta is released. If you can find the AoR beta for cheap, it's well worth the purchase. I don't recall any significant changes to force trees, so you could very easily just spend the smaller price for the beta for that content.


It's only 5 months to GenCon; both betas (and the prior 40K betas) all seem to have been GenCon releases.

155 days................but who's counting.................


I was going by Beta books appearing at retailers/FFG online stores rather than the limited Gencon release. Pretty sure most didn't get the beta until September or October time.


My FLGS had them by the end of August.

#16 Atraangelis

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:42 PM

I would think a Lightsaber would be extremely difficult and dangerous to use.  You're basically waving no weight around, so there is little to 'feel' and judge positioning with.  You certainly don't want that sucker touching you at all, so being as aware of the position of your own weapon in relation to yourself, as well as your enemy's, would be both paramount and quite difficult.

WE actually did this in our game group to prove a point...using a Pice of 8"PVC as the Jedi LS haft

3 players.. tried...

Lopped off two arms and bisected one...


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#17 polyheadronman

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:08 AM

As was stated, you'll miss out on the crunch of gear, species, adversaries and planets.  I think that apart from all of that though, you'll be fine.  FFG created this IP to be three separate games that COULD be played together, but don't have to be to have a complete game.  If you are not interested in working for the rebellion, then don't.

 

That is yet another reason I like this system and the way FFG are approaching it.  I am also a completionist, and love SW, so I will get the AoR stuff, however I think that if the decision was put to the group, they would carry on with EotE in general, with tantalizing num nums of FaD to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

On a side note, you may get use out of the careers and specs in AoR.  Just because they exist in that CB, doesn't mean you are forced to use them for that setting/theme.  For instance, if my BH/Assassin wanted to buy a Spy career spec, or rebuild a character as an ace pilot, without ever going near the rebellion, I would allow it.  FFG has even stated that the Obligation/Duty mechanics are interchangeable, so you can ignore duty altogether.

 

Bottom line, it's your money.


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#18 Daeglan

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:52 AM

 

I would think a Lightsaber would be extremely difficult and dangerous to use.  You're basically waving no weight around, so there is little to 'feel' and judge positioning with.  You certainly don't want that sucker touching you at all, so being as aware of the position of your own weapon in relation to yourself, as well as your enemy's, would be both paramount and quite difficult.

WE actually did this in our game group to prove a point...using a Pice of 8"PVC as the Jedi LS haft

3 players.. tried...

Lopped off two arms and bisected one...

 

Being trained in normal swords. I don't have a problem not having weight to judge by. I know my hand positions. 


Edited by Daeglan, 16 March 2014 - 01:52 AM.


#19 aramis

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:01 AM

 

 

I would think a Lightsaber would be extremely difficult and dangerous to use.  You're basically waving no weight around, so there is little to 'feel' and judge positioning with.  You certainly don't want that sucker touching you at all, so being as aware of the position of your own weapon in relation to yourself, as well as your enemy's, would be both paramount and quite difficult.

WE actually did this in our game group to prove a point...using a Pice of 8"PVC as the Jedi LS haft

3 players.. tried...

Lopped off two arms and bisected one...

 

Being trained in normal swords. I don't have a problem not having weight to judge by. I know my hand positions. 

 

As another such individual, yep - one quickly learns the relationships, at least for one's favored weapons.



#20 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:24 AM

A lightsaber is dangerous to the untrained user, thus Atraangelis' example has merit, as his player reflects just that, someone not trained in using a weapon with no mass on the business end.  It's for things like this that some folks have suggested some kind of negative weapon quality that upgrades the difficulty of attacks if the wielder doesn't have at least one rank in the relevant combat skill.

 

Daeglen and Aramis, while you'd probably do better than Atraangellis' player, there's still the fact that your own training has involved weapons where the mass is distributed throughout the entire weapon rather than being concentrated solely in the hilt.  Due to your respective experience with melee weapons, you probably wouldn't be losing any limbs since you've got muscle memory telling you to keep the sharp/pointy ends away from your body, but you won't be pulling off the sorts of moves we see the Prequel Jedi do either, or even someone as raw and untrained as Luke (though the EU has noted him as being a prodigy when it comes to lightsaber combat, thus why he was able to hold his own against Vader and later overpower the Sith Lord).

 

Of course, it also depends on the style of swordsmanship.  A Kendo-based style probably wouldn't have too much trouble, since the blade is generally kept to the front and sides and pointed away from the user (and was indeed the foundation used for the lightsaber fights seen in the original films).  With Kenjutsu, part of the danger was in drawing the sword, particularly if doing an Iaijutsu/fast-draw as one could slice their leg if not done properly.

 

Same to an extent with Olympic fencing, though the trick there is to avoid over-extending your thrusts (harder to avoid when your weapon can push through flesh and bone with the same ease as a white-hot pin through a stick of butter).  Christopher Lee did the less vigorous footwork himself, again using a style very similar to fencing, though incorporating slashes instead of relying solely upon thrusts.

 

In both the above cases, a lot of practice was put in by the actors/stuntmen to make it look good on the screen.  There's a behind-the-scenes featurette for Episode III that focuses on the time and effort that Ewan and Hayden put in for the big Obi-Wan vs. Anakin duel, and they were going a lot faster than Mark and Bob Anderson (who was in the Vader suit for the fight sequences) did in their fights.  Though it could be said that due to the speed used in the Prequels, there was a bit more Flynning going on though the Originals had their fair share of it as well.


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