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Tome of Decay annoucned!


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#241 Fgdsfg

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Posted Yesterday, 02:04 AM

 

 

I was just expecting more of them,  Good selection of melee weapons, grenades are also good (rad grenades yay!) but no new guns? only new ammo? They could have put in some needle weapons, or a gun that works similar to those scourge shells, vomit throwing flamers, assault canons shooting daemonic larvae and flies... scourge missiles, scourge ammo for sniper rifles...

Books don't have unlimited space. Everything has to fit in.

BYE

 

 

It's very obvious that they tried to fold a whole bunch of content into Tome of Decay that shouldn't really be there, though, probably taken from a future project that got scrapped, likely due to the sheer number of character supplements that have been squeezed out for Black Crusade, and the pending scrapping of the game line (we all know it's happening; Black Crusade is easily the least played line, and they have DH2 to coddle now).

 

Tome of Decay is a let-down because instead of getting the singular focus on Nurgle and nurglite characters that the other Tomes more or less enjoyed, Tome of Decay comes across as a hodge-podge, a smatter of things that doesn't necessarily relate to eachother at all.

 

I guess my point is that while you say "everything has to fit in", I say that no, it doesn't. It's about prioritizing. It's about approach.

 

There's large sections of the book that has no business being in a tome dedicated to Nurgle. While the other tomes often introduced sections that provided interest and opportunities for all characters, they were at least tenuously tied to the concept of the book. Book of Fate got a whole bunch of psychic powers, Book of Excess got the social combat bit, Tome of Blood had the mass combat rules, etc.

Tome of Decay gets an atypical amount of Advanced Archetypes, an Alternate Career-like system that is the least interesting or useful system from a character concept and development standpoint throughout the entire WH40kRP lines, it gets the rules for running end-game (pretty much "post-game", by Core) black crusades, it gets (uninspiring, in my personal opinion) rules for end-game (again, pretty much "post-game", by Core) daemon princes, it gets an high-level/end-game adventure, and rules for creating daemon engines, and it gets rules for playing possessed characters.

 

None of these things particularly scream "Nurgle". The vast majority of this clearly belongs to a "Unaligned" supplement or a general game expansion. It is as if you'd include the content from Dark Heresy's Ascension in the Book of Judgement or The Lathe Worlds.

 

I would much rather have taken a table or ranged weapons featuring needle weapons, tox-guns or larvae cannons, scourge missiles, scourge rifles, and so on and so forth. And I say this as someone that things that endless tables and descriptions of weapons (or Talents, as has become the unfortunate norm in Only War) is pretty much a cop-outl.

 

To see the Tome dedicated to my favourite Chaos God reduced to a hodge-podge capstone fit-it-all-in-before-the-line-dies-because-we-suck-at-planning book is disheartening to say the least. Not even if this is the last book made for Black Crusade, it is to be considered worthy. It simply doesn't fit in with the other Tomes at all, and when judged, stands out as the red-headed stepchild, a bastard child in a family of what should've been quintuplets.

 

:(


Edited by Fgdsfg, Yesterday, 02:05 AM.

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#242 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted Yesterday, 05:22 AM

 

 

I was just expecting more of them,  Good selection of melee weapons, grenades are also good (rad grenades yay!) but no new guns? only new ammo? They could have put in some needle weapons, or a gun that works similar to those scourge shells, vomit throwing flamers, assault canons shooting daemonic larvae and flies... scourge missiles, scourge ammo for sniper rifles...

Books don't have unlimited space. Everything has to fit in.

BYE

 

How is the space of a book determined?  Is there a massive cost to adding 3 or 4 pages beyond the originally planned limit?  Because of binding is there a "you must add in blocks 20" type rule?



#243 HappyDaze

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Posted Yesterday, 06:19 AM

I think it's blocks of 16 pages.


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Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#244 Fgdsfg

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Posted Yesterday, 08:57 AM

I think it's blocks of 16 pages.

You may be entirely correct, and know this from something I don't know, but in general, it differs from company to company, afaik, usually to a minimum of 4 pages added/removed, depending on method used for printing/binding the book(s).

 

And I want to stress that this can be a significant investment for a company, though, and honestly, if you are a serious company you shouldn't change the size of your books across multiple volumes. All of the "Tome of..." books are 145 pages.

It would be very odd if it changed from one volume to another. There really should just have been 5 Supplements.

They really, really should've published it like this:

Core Rulebook
GM Screen
Adventure (Hand of Corruption)
Tome of Decay: A Sourcebook for Followers of Nurgle

Adventure (Worlds of Death; Part I of the March to Apotheosis Trilogy)

Tome of Blood: A Sourcebook for Followers of Khorne
Adventure (Legions of Steel; Part II of the March to Apotheosis Trilogy)

Tome of Fate: A Sourcebook for Followers of Tzeentch

Adventure (Vortices of Horror; Part III of the March to Apotheosis Trilogy)

Tome of Excess: A Sourcebook for Followers of Slaanesh

Adventure (War of the Inner Vortex)

The Lost and the Damned: A Sourcebook for all Heretics on the Path to Apotheosis.

 

I have no idea what they were thinking when they launched the line and thought "Hey, let's publish a single adventure, and then cram out 4 to 5 character supplements in a row, each focusing on a single god, and hope people can keep the interest up for long enough." and then went "Woops, we've got all this stuff that we want to do for endgame play and general game expansion, but it doesn't fit in anywhere, and man, 5 supplements was way too much. How much can we neuter the Tome of Decay and shove in there before the line dies completely?".

 

Really, I love Black Crusade, it's actually one of the neatest systems in many ways, moreso than even Only War, and the only truly glaring flaw with the system itself was actually the introduction of the Advanced Archetypes, instead of content that would actually deal with options for existing characters.

 

But they really dropped the ball when it came to prioritization, the supplements and keeping the interest up.


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Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#245 H.B.M.C.

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Posted Yesterday, 10:06 PM

n/m

 

There's is literally no point in arguing with you Fgdsfg. You always assume the worst, and thus there is no convincing you otherwise.

 

...


Edited by H.B.M.C., Yesterday, 10:09 PM.

Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#246 Fgdsfg

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Posted Today, 02:02 AM

n/m

 

There's is literally no point in arguing with you Fgdsfg. You always assume the worst, and thus there is no convincing you otherwise.

 

...

Of course I assume the worst, but if you have any arguments at all, feel free to present them. Is there anything in my critique that is unwarranted?

Mind you, I'm not criticizing the content itself, I'm criticizing the way it was (is?) handled. Obviously something isn't right in the Black Crusade line, unless you want to argue that it's the least popular line - I might be wrong, after all, I just judge based on personal experience, there might be numbers saying otherwise.

 

I see the content in the Tome of Decay, and I compare it to the content presented in the other Tomes. Am I wrong in my analysis somewhere? To actually proclaim that there is no convincing me otherwise, you actually have to try to convince me first.

 

They only thing you said so far is that books have limited space and that everything has to fit in. My counter-argument was that it doesn't, you just have to choose what you fit in them. That is literally the only argument I've had with you on the issue here.

 

I'm not assigning FFG or you writers any malice, I'm just saying that things could've been handled much better. I don't have any insight into the creative process or the discussions within the development team, I'm operating on conjecture and my own analytical abilities based on the facts presented, that's really all I can do. If there is evidence to the opposite, I'd absolutely love to see it.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#247 DeathByGrotz

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Posted Today, 06:20 AM

He does raise a valid point for the next product line, at least. Properly planning a release schedule (and polling your customer base on what they want to create said schedule) is a very good idea.



#248 Chaplain

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Posted Today, 10:05 AM

Fgdsfg,

While I totally agree with you on the fact that ToD is a rushed attempt at releasing post-apotheosis mechanics in a book dedicated to completely different subject, and just like you I feel bad for what I consider my favorite game of all WH40K RPG line, I would like to know what exactly have you taken into account when you assumed that Black Crusade is the least popular game of the series.


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#249 ThenDoctor

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Posted Today, 01:06 PM

I would be curious as to the statistics, maybe FFG could put up a poll.


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I've made an expanded Divinations table for Dark Heresy Second Edition.

 

Find it here: http://community.fan...general-thread/


#250 Fgdsfg

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Posted Today, 01:40 PM

Fgdsfg,
While I totally agree with you on the fact that ToD is a rushed attempt at releasing post-apotheosis mechanics in a book dedicated to completely different subject, and just like you I feel bad for what I consider my favorite game of all WH40K RPG line, I would like to know what exactly have you taken into account when you assumed that Black Crusade is the least popular game of the series.

Personal experience, really. Like I said, I operate on nothing but conjecture and observation, I have absolutely zero figures, although I'd love to see some. I'm fairly active on the WH40kRP boards, and in my experience, the Black Crusade forum is also by far the least active. Also, I've met a lot of people that simply don't get the idea of playing Chaos, thinking that it's pretty much unrelatable chaotic stupid - but I have met nothing like that for the other lines. Also, the release rate appears far lower than all others, save perhaps Deathwatch at this point in time (Deathwatch seems to really have taken a dive).

I would be curious as to the statistics, maybe FFG could put up a poll.

Polls are terrible for factual representation. I'd like to see some sales figure based on year.

Edited by Fgdsfg, Today, 01:41 PM.

Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.





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