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Which 40k game


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#1 computertrucker

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 01:12 PM

Just curious which 40k game setting written by fantasy flight has the best overall rules system and layout.

I realize deathwatch came before only war and the black crusade. Did they present the rules better in those games? I have been running a campaign for a bit over a year. But only a few game sessions a month and some breaks as well. And while we love the setting and the game. We all agree the book is layed out horribly.

Did FF do a better job with later products?

#2 KPhan2121

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:24 PM

I'm gunna have to say that rules and balancewise, the later products are better(Black Crusade, Only War, and hopefully Dark Heresy 2e). However, you don't choose the book for the rules, since the rules overall are pretty similar. The question should be what type of game does your group want to play?


Edited by KPhan2121, 09 March 2014 - 02:25 PM.


#3 Lynata

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:30 PM

I wouldn't say that the rules are pretty similar ... yes, they all use the same underlying d100 system, but each of the games - apart from various refinements and changes to general mechanics such as the firing modes or psychic powers - also adds something unique that lets one rulebook stand apart from another not only in terms of narrative focus but also range of options. For example, where Deathwatch has Demeanours and Hordes, Black Crusade has Minions, and Only War has Comrades. Other aspects of the game have been remade entirely, as the system experienced an evolution away from rigid advancement trees to a level-less progression that cares only about class-based Aptitudes (to calculate XP cost), and sometimes one or two pre-requirements.

 

Anyways, I do agree that the later books are an improvement, and Only War remains my favourite just because the Aptitude system has really grown on me. That doesn't mean that the later products are without issues (or, in some cases and depending on your personal preferences, may have made things worse than they were before), but it's clear that the design team has "learned and grown" the more time they spend on the system they have inherited from Black Industries.

 

The supplements, on the other hand, seem to suffer a mirrored development compared to the rulebooks, getting slightly worse the newer they are (<mostly> not in background, but in mechanical additions) - although, in fairness, there is not a single book you can't gain something good from.

 

The layout could probably be improved further, but aside from some minor gripes (interestingly also mostly from Deathwatch - one should not assume so, but I think their earlier Rogue Trader book was not as "jumbled") I did not experience any problems there. What are you referring to, in particular?

 

 

[edit] For what it's worth, I think Only War is also more fun just because you're playing the underdog, and this opens up a whole lot of new possibilities for character backgrounds and interaction, not to mention the flair and the greater challenge (my first OW character lived for about 10 minutes of narrative time .. and it was worth it! :P).


Edited by Lynata, 09 March 2014 - 05:34 PM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#4 Visitor Q

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:00 AM

I still have massive soft spot for Dark Heresy.  I wasn't a fan of the Rogue Trader core rule book.  For some reason I wasn't able to navigate it as well, wasn't a fan of the space combat rules in particular.

 

Death Watch does well in bringing individual marines to life but there are 'LOADS OF RULES' tm.    Personally I think all of the systems as with all RPG games require a fair amount of input from th GM to ensure they run smoothly.


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#5 computertrucker

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:48 AM

So how are the rules for minions in TBC? I have a player playing an arbitrator in my group. She didnt want to play a marine. Anyway I have written house rules because on the current mission the kill team is on she has been given 2 10 man squads of of arbites to command. Which I took horde on horde rules out of Xenos threats book and did a lot of modification to them which made a lot more since. Then came up with some advanced command skill rules for her to use. I only have the core book for dark heresy, and command was pretty basic there.

If anyone is interested when i have more time I can post my homebrew rules. Just let me know.

#6 Lynata

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

So how are the rules for minions in TBC?

 

Personally .. I think pretty sweet! However, they are meant more for individual companions rather than groups of followers, so probably not what you might be looking for in regards to that Arbites player (unless you use them to portray an individual NPC under her command; this might work nicely).

 

The Minion rules add a lot to that game, I'd say. Has players get creative about building their own little coterie.

 

I have a player playing an arbitrator in my group. She didnt want to play a marine.

 

I think one of the biggest problems is the silly weapon disparity - as if being more squishy and not as strong in melee would not be punishing enough. Just giving her an Astartes shotgun or bolter might help, maybe?

 

Anyway I have written house rules because on the current mission the kill team is on she has been given 2 10 man squads of of arbites to command. Which I took horde on horde rules out of Xenos threats book and did a lot of modification to them which made a lot more since.

 

How much different from Horde rules are they? I've come up with a system for 5-10 man squads myself, but they're not built upon Horde rules in any way and thus play very differently. Still need playtesting, though. Maybe we could exchange notes and ideas?


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#7 computertrucker

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:23 AM

When I get a break later I will compose a post in the house rules section so we can do some sharing with what I have so far.
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