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My take at Tau vessels


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#1 LordBlades

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:09 PM

I did a bit of work the past couple of days converting BFG Tau ship stats fr using in Rogue Trader.

 

Here is what I've come up with:

General Tau rules : https://docs.google....zBTanM2dFU/edit

Ship stats: https://drive.google...2Jwd0tLWkE/edit

 

What I'm not exactly happy with: most stuff seems to be pretty straightforward to port by comparison with Imperial ships, except for macrobatteries (not the broadsides). In the attempt to make frigates more viable as combat ships than they are in fluff (at least that's what I assume) FFG decided to double the str of macrobatteries (1 or 2 in BFG seems to translate 3 or 4 in RT). This has little effect on Imperial ships as most of the cruisers and above rely on broadsides for the bulk of their damage, but a much greater one on Tau. Tau ships don't seem to have broadsides (apart form the Custodian carrier I haven't been able to find anything resembling a broadside). As such, the Tau ships have ended up a bit stronger than they are in BFG because a significant part of their main armament is Railgun batteries and as such benefits from the doubling of the Str.


Edited by LordBlades, 10 March 2014 - 05:52 AM.


#2 Amazing Larry

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:43 AM

Apparently I don't have the plugins or whatnot to view it, just the same I'm going to assume good effort but I hate to be the bearer of bad news nobody likes the goddamn Tau or thinks they mesh well with the setting. I think there's elements of what they are that could be interesting but it was mishandled from the start because it was focused on trying to capitalize on the anime boom of the late nineties through the early aughts without regard of anything else.


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#3 LordBlades

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:55 AM

What makes you believe nobody likes the Tau? Personal feelings aside I've never come across any significant anti-Tau feelings in WH40k communities (unlike let's say Matt Ward, newcrons or the cartoonish villainy of Failbaddon the Armless).
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#4 Nameless2all

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:13 AM

I like them.  Hence why my WH40k Table top army is about 4,000 points worth of models.

 

Edit:  I like the Tau.  The Necrons, not so much.


Edited by Nameless2all, 08 March 2014 - 07:22 AM.

For a collection of fan created material, please refer to the link below. Some of it was edited/created by myself and friends, while most is other fan material. Happy gaming people.https://drive.google.com<p>-"May your endeavors always be prosperous, though they may not always be profitable."


#5 Amazing Larry

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:25 AM

People hate the latest necron retcon? Yeah it doesn't transform them into the most compelling culture or force in the setting but any sort of characterization is an improvement on "Unkillible Robots Kill Everyone Because of HP Lovecraft" deal that was happening before. How many "**** everyone up just because" armies does the setting need? I guess people might cry that giving them a culture ignores what they were before but what they were before was metal tyranids without any of the visceral elements.


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#6 venkelos

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:14 AM

There are armies I like, fluff-wise, and others I hate, the same. Personally, I do like the Tau, once they became a bit less "the Good Guys Amongst the Sea of Evil", and became more "oily, seditious aliens who will trick you into slavery, as if it was your own idea, and sterilize you, while you work." Some of the "Asian" themes, a lot of which I didn't see until the Dawn of War series did it, gives them a Neimodian feel that makes them less trustworthy, to me, and thus more likeable. I apologize if that offended anyone, but it's sort of "how I feel"; maybe we can blame George Lucas. I liked the Necrons more before because sometimes the "personality" attached to factions of unchanging, Human-hating hordes seems pointless. How much soul (hah!) do you need to impacably kill every other creature, without any regard for anything else? Also, they were less "the Tomb Kings from Fantasy in 40K" before they basically became just that, with fearfulness, cowardice, backstabbing, plotting, deal-making, diplomacy of sorts, and a lot of ancient, broken-down tech. I won't even go into them making team ups with Space Marines. Also, they whipped their own gods, but haven't done much since; how tough must those gods have been?

 

Conversely, I differ from a lot of 40K fans in that I HATE Orks. I honestly don't like anything about them, and don't find them funny, amusing, or what have you. From their cockney accents to their "we're so dumb, but numerous, the very galaxy does what we want" mentality (red paint goes faster), I just loathe them, and am only glad that they almost never hit anything with ranged attacks. Not a big fan of Dark Eldar, either, fluff-wise. Being d***s just for the fun of being d***s wears old with me. Slaanesh I hate from a 4th ed mechanics angle, mostly, with their Mark making Noise Marines unfun to play against. And things could go on.

 

For tau ships, the only problem I'd have with them is that they are Tau. In that, I mean players aren't really likely to have them, couldn't upkeep them (who'd know how?), and the Tau are SUPPOSED to have no real presence in the Expanse. Granted, your game isn't my game, so I'll not tell you what's right, and you COULD be happily doing one of my future plans; Rogue Trader in the Reach, but... As for ship strength, I think they maybe SHOULD have stronger guns. Rail tech is awesome, and the Tau can actually make stuff, which the Imperium can't. The Tau should be relatively superior in space; they can innovate, make smaller, more compact stuff, mass produce, and such. Their weakness is distance; they don't have Navigators, and their ships can only skip across the warp threshold, anyway, so their uneventful voyages are slow, and they are limited in where they can go. Once they enter an area though, they can often hold it for a good, long while, ergo the Jericho Reach. The only thing likely to shove them out of there is the Tyranid Hive Fleet, as Dagon is still, IMO, likely to eat all three other competitors, eventually, and even if they do lose, worlds they touched will just sprout more organisms later, and on it will continue.


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#7 LordBlades

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:30 PM

There are armies I like, fluff-wise, and others I hate, the same. Personally, I do like the Tau, once they became a bit less "the Good Guys Amongst the Sea of Evil", and became more "oily, seditious aliens who will trick you into slavery, as if it was your own idea, and sterilize you, while you work." Some of the "Asian" themes, a lot of which I didn't see until the Dawn of War series did it, gives them a Neimodian feel that makes them less trustworthy, to me, and thus more likeable. I apologize if that offended anyone, but it's sort of "how I feel"; maybe we can blame George Lucas.

 

I have roughly the same idea about the Tau. The Greater Good is neither that great nor that good on a closer look, unless you are Tau (and possibly not even then). As a human you might be treated a lot better under Tau rule than as an Imperial citizen but you're actually living the life of a glorified slave. You will be ruled by Tau, for the benefit of the Tau empire and you literally have no chance for a representative of your own species to hold any kind of position of power. Not to mention that, in most documented conflicts, the Tau seemed way more willing to abandon 'allied' worlds to the enemy than their own septs.

Then, there's also Ethereals, who just seemed to pop out of thin air and take control of the Tau. Given this is WH 40k is not that unlikely they have ulterior motives completely unrelated to the Greater Good.

 

 


Conversely, I differ from a lot of 40K fans in that I HATE Orks. I honestly don't like anything about them, and don't find them funny, amusing, or what have you. From their cockney accents to their "we're so dumb, but numerous, the very galaxy does what we want" mentality (red paint goes faster), I just loathe them, and am only glad that they almost never hit anything with ranged attacks.

 

I find Orks to be hands down the worst written races fluff-wise. The base premise is really interesting, but the whole silliness (ork language and names, red vehicles going faster and so on) give it a feeling of comic relief that IMO just doesn't belong in WH 40k.

 


 

For tau ships, the only problem I'd have with them is that they are Tau. In that, I mean players aren't really likely to have them, couldn't upkeep them (who'd know how?), and the Tau are SUPPOSED to have no real presence in the Expanse. Granted, your game isn't my game, so I'll not tell you what's right, and you COULD be happily doing one of my future plans; Rogue Trader in the Reach, but... As for ship strength, I think they maybe SHOULD have stronger guns. Rail tech is awesome, and the Tau can actually make stuff, which the Imperium can't. The Tau should be relatively superior in space; they can innovate, make smaller, more compact stuff, mass produce, and such. Their weakness is distance; they don't have Navigators, and their ships can only skip across the warp threshold, anyway, so their uneventful voyages are slow, and they are limited in where they can go. Once they enter an area though, they can often hold it for a good, long while, ergo the Jericho Reach. The only thing likely to shove them out of there is the Tyranid Hive Fleet, as Dagon is still, IMO, likely to eat all three other competitors, eventually, and even if they do lose, worlds they touched will just sprout more organisms later, and on it will continue.

 

The RT game I'm currently in has moved beyond the Koronus Expanse rather quickly. The RT is currently also an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and ATM we're running some errands for the Tau on Agrellan before heading into the Eye of Terror. My char is a Tau Void-master working for a small and secretive faction of Ethereals who are trying to encourage selected individuals from the Imperium to make friendly contacts with the Tau to 'see the virtues of the Greater Good for themselves' as they believe it's in the Tau's best interest for the Imperium to survive as long as possible as a buffer against Orks and Tyranids. As such, there's a possibility of having Tau vessels support us, so the GM has asked me to try and develop some Tau voidship stats&mechanics.

 

Regarding them having better guns, I tried to go by the fluff which didn't seem to imply Tau weapons&ships to be more capable than the Imperial Navy's, and I didn't want to produces something too strong. I aimed to focus the Tau's technological superiority in fluff mostly (Tau ships to be smaller, have smaller crews, achieve the same battery Str. in game terms with less actual guns due to better damage and accuracy etc.)


Edited by LordBlades, 08 March 2014 - 03:34 PM.


#8 fr05yu

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:55 PM

I think that overall the Tau ships seem balanced, although some of them have too many guns. In general you seem to have overlooked the fact that because the Tau don't really use void shields and instead they use their own shield technology it is a bit weaker. In BFG terms it meant that Tau ships normally had sub-par shield values but always have above-average turret ratings. I'd argue that this should be kept, as the Custodian having 3 shields makes it on par with an Imperial Grand Cruiser (on the tabletop the Grand Cruiser had 3 shields and 3 turrets, the Custodian had 2 shields and 5 turrets) and it would match imperial Void Shield technology which is one of the things that are much more advanced.



#9 Amazing Larry

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:26 AM

I find Orks to be hands down the worst written races fluff-wise. The base premise is really interesting, but the whole silliness (ork language and names, red vehicles going faster and so on) give it a feeling of comic relief that IMO just doesn't belong in WH 40k.

 

I don't think you'd like my group or my game in that case, we don't do a goofy or joke game but we like to throw in lots of satirical elements and moments. 40K is in my opinion an ideal setting for black humor and small helpings of craziness. I tend to go for a tone (and violence/gore level) similar to that of in a Paul Verhoeven film like Robocop or Total Recall. In fact that's one way I explain what I'm going for when pitching it to new players, that my game is largely about being an 80's action hero in 40k.

 

Whatever goofiness there is to orks is tempered in my opinion by their capacity to kick your ass, they remain pretty threatening even to well equipped RT player characters assuming you throw in a Nob and some oddboys.



#10 Amaimon

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:55 PM

1) Explorer battleship - should have 3 Port, 3 Starboard, 1 Prow, 1 Dorsal - same as Imperial battleships. Yes its that literal, check the other ships

2)  Gal'leath experimental Borkan configuration - 2 Prow, 2 Port, 2 Starboard, 1 Aft (Stern)

3) Custodian  - see #1, maybe with two prow slots with str 3 torpedo launchers or one component with str 6 torpedo. 

4) Il'fanor - 1 Prow, 2 Port, 2 Starboard  -were did you get dorsal from?!

5... etc repeat at all ships until their slots are correct. 

 

There is no reason to change their slots. Railguns and Ion cannons work like their imperial counterparts in all respects. Also dont try to find a general rule of translating str from BFG to RT. Use your own mind. Typical Railgun Macrobattery could be comparable to sunsear laser battery. If its str 6 in bfg, just use rules of sunsear broadside mounted on prow with 180 degree firing arc and call it gauss. Nice. 



#11 WeedyGrot

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 03:07 PM

 

I find Orks to be hands down the worst written races fluff-wise. The base premise is really interesting, but the whole silliness (ork language and names, red vehicles going faster and so on) give it a feeling of comic relief that IMO just doesn't belong in WH 40k.

 

I don't think you'd like my group or my game in that case, we don't do a goofy or joke game but we like to throw in lots of satirical elements and moments. 40K is in my opinion an ideal setting for black humor and small helpings of craziness. I tend to go for a tone (and violence/gore level) similar to that of in a Paul Verhoeven film like Robocop or Total Recall. In fact that's one way I explain what I'm going for when pitching it to new players, that my game is largely about being an 80's action hero in 40k.

 

Whatever goofiness there is to orks is tempered in my opinion by their capacity to kick your ass, they remain pretty threatening even to well equipped RT player characters assuming you throw in a Nob and some oddboys.

 

 

Interestingly I have found that an Ork can be the straight man in a Rogue Trader campaign. Given the amount of superstitious learning within the Imperium and ritualized techno-worship it can seem, from an outsider's perspective at least that the Ork that just smacks his gun against an enemy to clear the jam or pushes the go faster button rather than communing with the machine spirit to coax more speed out of the vessel is the only sane one... if fairly simplistic in his outlook.


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#12 Annaamarth

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 01:32 AM

^ I support this ork, and only this ork.

 

Pretty sure that turret rating and void shields translate directly.  Strength and damage may or may not.  Just make it balanced-ish, with a focus on long-ranged firepower.  Also give them a -30 penalty to hit-and-run actions.

 

My 2 cents.


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played





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