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Political Intrigue Phase


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#1 Haljordan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:58 PM

I have played one game with all the expansion rules and I was left wondering how a few of the mechanics work in the political Intrigue Phase. Since the last time the FAQ was updated was 3 years ago I wanted some other opinions on how they see this phase supposing to work. 

 

Do you have to send a representative to the galactic council if you do in fact have a viable option? Can you refrain from sending one if you think people are just going to try and kill you?

 

When you resolve a representative’s spy ability can you target a face up representative or does it have to be a face down one?

 

When using the Political II strategy card you get to choose who gets the speaker token. Can the token stay with the person who already has it or must it change hands? The only rule I can see governing this is that the person who is chosen to resolve a political card can not receive it. However looking at the rules for the Political strategy card it says that you can not give it to the person who currently holds it. 

 

I'm planning on having a massive 8 player 4 ring game in early April and I want to nail down the rules as best I can before we start playing, it been a long time since we last played. Thank you to everyone who responds. 



#2 adamwehn

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:23 AM

Do you have to send a representative to the galactic council if you do in fact have a viable option? Can you refrain from sending one if you think people are just going to try and kill you?

 

 

When you resolve a representative’s spy ability can you target a face up representative or does it have to be a face down one?

 

 

When using the Political II strategy card you get to choose who gets the speaker token. Can the token stay with the person who already has it or must it change hands? The only rule I can see governing this is that the person who is chosen to resolve a political card can not receive it. However looking at the rules for the Political strategy card it says that you can not give it to the person who currently holds it. 

 

 

I'm planning on having a massive 8 player 4 ring game in early April and I want to nail down the rules as best I can before we start playing, it been a long time since we last played. Thank you to everyone who responds. 

 

 

Reading the rules for the strategy cards, when using representatives you do not use Political II, you use Assembly II.

 

Since spies are resolved first no representative should be revealed ever before a spy.

 

Reading the rules as far as sending a representative, it appears that so long as you have an available representative to send you must send them.  As there is a statement in the rules stating that if you have no representative to send then you may not participate in a vote.



#3 Cremate

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:32 AM

Do you have to send a representative to the galactic council if you do in fact have a viable option? Can you refrain from sending one if you think people are just going to try and kill you?

Good question. Upon reading your question I was at first certain that you would be forced to send one, as we had that question pop up recently. I recalled it as being stated clearly in the rules, but after some searching I realised that I was confusing it for a question regarding leaders in the other Twilight Imperium-themed game Rex.

As far as I can see there is no official ruling on this nor is it found in the consolidated FAQ (a collection of responses on rule questions to the developer) at http://boardgamegeek...ht_Imperium_FAQ

In other words it is house rule territory. While thematic to boykott the galactic assembly I would personally find it problematic in terms of gameplay to allow for players not sending a representative when able to. If you do allow it, though, do not forget that a player without a representative cannot vote on the agenda.

 

 When you resolve a representative’s spy ability can you target a face up representative or does it have to be a face down one?

Yes, you can target any representative, whether open or not. This as been reaffirmed by the developer in the consolidated FAQ. Being closer to the Speaker when revealing spies gives you the benefit of being a first-mover, however, being further from the Speaker gives you the benefit of having more knowledge when you target with your spies.

By the way this is one part of the rules where I most often see people having adopted non-RAW practices and I'm not always sure whether it stems from a conscious choice or a misreading of the rules. Particularly the bit that revealing and activating of spies must happen one at a time, starting with the Speaker and going clock-wise (some groups seem to reveal them all at the same time, making it a bit chaotic as well as changing the 'information' game from the RAW substantially).
 

When using the Political II strategy card you get to choose who gets the speaker token. Can the token stay with the person who already has it or must it change hands? The only rule I can see governing this is that the person who is chosen to resolve a political card can not receive it. However looking at the rules for the Political strategy card it says that you can not give it to the person who currently holds it.

The Political II Strategy Card never allows for you to change the Speaker. It's always meant to be used with the Initiative Strategy Card (the Initiative Card is then the one to change the Speaker) and to allow you to combine the Strategy Cards from the base game with the Political Intrigue option from the Shards of the Throne expansion. Neither the Political I or Political II Strategy Cards allow for changing the Speaker.

If you meant to ask concerning the Assembly II, then you are allowed to keep the Speaker token, as long as you pick someone else for playing the agenda Political Card.


Edited by Cremate, 07 March 2014 - 04:46 AM.


#4 Cremate

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:39 AM

 

Since spies are resolved first no representative should be revealed ever before a spy.

Spies are representatives and spies are not revealed simultaneously. They are revealed -and resolved- sequentially in a clockwise order starting with the Speaker. Resolving them will often also reveal an additional representative (the one targeted by a targeting spy).

In other words if someone earlier in the sequence have sent a spy, they and/or their targets will be face-up representative by the time you need to resolve your own spy.



#5 robertcop2

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:29 AM

Page 20 of the SoT rulebook, written twice: "Players follow the Council steps found on page 12" and written on both Political II and Assembly II "Choose representatives". It doesn't say "You may follow the Council steps" or "You may choose representatives".



#6 Haljordan

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:32 AM

I apologize I was speaking about the Assembly II strategy card and not the political II. Like I said it has been awhile since I’ve played a game of TI. On page 14 of the Shattered Empire rule book it states that for Assembly:  Important: When a player uses option “b,” he may not choose himself or the current Speaker to gain the Speaker token. Option “a” may not be chosen if the player is already the Speaker. I was wondering if that rule carried over for Assembly II.

            To me it would make logical sense that you couldn’t just hold onto the speaker token or keep it with the same player as every other iteration does not allow for that. 

 

Page 20 of the SoT rulebook, written twice: "Players follow the Council steps found on page 12" and written on both Political II and Assembly II "Choose representatives". It doesn't say "You may follow the Council steps" or "You may choose representatives".

 

To me this is still a bit too ambiguous, what if I choose to not send a representative? That would fulfill “choosing” a representative albeit not choosing one. There are also some instances that you could not fulfill the “choosing” a representative requirement, when all of yours are dead, action cards, etc. The rules do not describe what happens under these circumstances.

            Overall I find the political intrigue phase to be fun… but lacking in the rules department and very ambiguous I was wondering what other people do to help alleviate the problem with this phase.



#7 Cremate

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 03:25 AM

I apologize I was speaking about the Assembly II strategy card and not the political II. Like I said it has been awhile since I’ve played a game of TI. On page 14 of the Shattered Empire rule book it states that for Assembly:  Important: When a player uses option “b,” he may not choose himself or the current Speaker to gain the Speaker token. Option “a” may not be chosen if the player is already the Speaker. I was wondering if that rule carried over for Assembly II.

            To me it would make logical sense that you couldn’t just hold onto the speaker token or keep it with the same player as every other iteration does not allow for that.

I believe I already answered this above, but in case you need the rule wording to believe me:

FAQ.

Q: If a player is already the Speaker and selects Assembly II,
may he retain the Speaker token and select another player to
choose an agenda?
A:Yes





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