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Should FFG had made the Falcon unique?


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#21 stegocent

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:08 AM

Though I see your point the only time I could agree with one Han, Lando or Chewi would be in a campaign.
Overall its just too late, we have our cards, we paid good money for them so I'll be damned if anyone is gonna tell me I can't use them. This is not 40k where we buy our mini's then a codex (army book) for the rules.
FAQ's are for clearing up wording on the cards/rules NOT changing them!

On another point, Han's boast was that the falcon was fast "kessel run in under....blah blah time units..." so should it have a different dial from a stock YT?? And what about its forward blasters........
Need I go on....

I say again, you have a fair point in some sort of campaign game.
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#22 Bohrdumb

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:00 AM

These are important things for people to get upset about.


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#23 Crabbok

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:22 AM

So we know that Lando owned the Falcon before Han, and Han made special modifications, so Lando's YT-1300 was not exactly the same as Han's.   We can draw many different assumptions there, but let's assume for the moment, that Lando's YT didn't have the "Evade" action.  

 

  So then what is wrong with having Lando in his YT and Han in His with the Falcon name?   

 

   If you ask me it's no different than having Biggs in play with any B-Wing or A-Wing... since those didn't show up until 2 movies later!   It's a tear in the fabric of space and time!    Time-Lords are wreaking havoc!    Is that a TARDIS on the board?!?!?


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#24 JJFDVORAK

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:22 PM

I am actually more bugged by how good the standard YT is than by having "two falcons" meaning that a standard YT should really suck in this game. It should be slow, have limited fire power, and die super easy. It should have a dial like a shuttle and fly like a brick. Lando to some extent, but most Han and Chewie, made many modifications to the standard YT such as upgrading the engines, installing military grade weapons and sensors, upgrading the hyperdrive, installing smuggling compartments, etc. To make it into the Falcon we all know and love. If the standard YT was a reasonably good ship to begin with, then both Luke and Leah would not have commented on how crappy it was the first time they each saw the Falcon, not knowing it had been heavily modified. Therefore it is really rather silly that all you get for geting the title card for the Falcon over a standard YT is an evade action. It should be that you get the current YT dial, stats, etc, and the standard YT should have a suckier dial and stat line to show how bad a stock YT would be.

#25 Englishpete

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

Er,

 

The ORS (YT-1300) is much worse than the Falcon Pilot Cards......


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#26 oneway

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:35 PM

So we know that Lando owned the Falcon before Han, and Han made special modifications, so Lando's YT-1300 was not exactly the same as Han's.   We can draw many different assumptions there, but let's assume for the moment, that Lando's YT didn't have the "Evade" action.  
 
  So then what is wrong with having Lando in his YT and Han in His with the Falcon name?   
 
   If you ask me it's no different than having Biggs in play with any B-Wing or A-Wing... since those didn't show up until 2 movies later!   It's a tear in the fabric of space and time!    Time-Lords are wreaking havoc!    Is that a TARDIS on the board?!?!?


I could almost agree with this... if.... they included another unique card for Landos version. The version they have him piloting though is the RotJ version.. obviously as they add in his Sullustan buddy as crew....

I'm not mad about this, or upset. I simply responded with my opinions and concerns when the subject was brought up... had I been really upset about it.. well, I'd have a different opinion and would have been way more upset.

To me this is a continuity thing, if they wanted to do a prequel version of the game and included the version of the Falcon from that time period, I would expect a different ship.. except the stock version. I just think the Falcon, and her stats should have been rare and unique. Yes Han, Chewie and Lando all flew it, but make is so they cant all fly it at the same time. This I feel is why you have Chewie and Luke as crew cards, for when Han is flying her.

I'm not telling anyone they cant fly Han and Lando, but I would probably, jokingly, mention something about it.
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#27 CrookedWookie

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

Well like dual Falcons or not, continuity doesn't really enter into it.  If you look at all of the ships that are together, and all of the pilots - guys who didn't join the Rebellion until after the destruction of Alderaan (Tycho) flying with guys who died at the battle of Yavin (half the pilot in the game) - it becomes pretty clear that "continuity" is not a word that the game is especially slavish to.

 

The three named YT pilots are all clearly their interpretation of the Falcon (titled or no) under the handling of three characters known to have flown it.  I'm frankly more interested in arguments as far as whether multiple versions of the Falcon is balanced, more than whether it makes any logical sense to have them flying together or not.  Logic doesn't hold up very long in a game like this if you start liberally applying it.


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#28 oneway

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:04 PM

Well, this wasn't a subject about all the dead pilots flying around.. lol.. I have issue with that too... if I was to generate a scenario, I would keep the continuity. No Biggs in a game after Episode IV, and no Luke in games before A New Hope.

Game balance is very important, and I'm not sure if using Han and Chewie is ... unbalanced or not, so I'm not gonna go into it much as I haven't played it out to see what it works out too.. and I'm not a mathwing person, cause I think stats that generates is useless in single night scenarios..

Edited by oneway, 03 March 2014 - 01:05 PM.

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#29 NotBatman

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:32 PM

The "dead" pilots don't bug me because the game creates it's own continuity. What I mean is, if Luke and Wedge can die on the table (but didn't onscreen), then the reverse is true so I'm fine with Biggs still being around. Like a JJ-style alternate timeline with the same building blocks, but things have played out differently. (And also I'm FAR too lazy to keep track of who's alive and who isn't and who's part of the Empire/Rebellion at this time or that...)

 

What bugs me PERSONALLY about Han AND Lando/Chewie flying YTs at the same time, is that they were all flying THE ACTUAL SAME SHIP in the movies.

 

Biggs flying with Arvel (or, you know, another X-wing pilot who came later) doesn't create an issue in my mind, because they both have their own ships as part of their own continuity (or whatever). While Han and Lando were both shown flying without the other, it was still the same, unique ship.

 

I DO wish that they'd made the enhanced stats part of the unique title while allowing everyone to fly a stock (ORS-style) YT. Honestly, I think they missed a really fun opportunity there, to let the big ships be customized to taste through an expanded set of Modification cards. You could end up in essentially the same place, upgrading a second YT to similar stats/abilities, but you could also follow another upgrade path entirely and fly two completely unique upgraded YTs or two uniquely upgraded Firesprays. I think that would have been a lot of fun!

 

The current set-up bugs me enough that I PERSONALLY would never fly Han and Lando together, but I'm also well aware that this is how the game was set up and if someone else wants to do that, I wouldn't say anything about it. 

 

(And, of course, there is also that chance that I might use a sharpie and some crayons to make, like, Eahdo Oalrisslah if I ever broke down and wanted to fly two upgraded YTs... :) )


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#30 Galactic Funk

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:01 PM

Fluff reasons aside using 2 of Han, Chewie, Lando in this game is perfectly fine primarily because it's not overpowered.

I'm sure there are local meta's that are/would be completely dominated by such a list but that's simply a matter of a gaming group needing to figure out how to counter it.

It's obviously strong given the 360° arc, high hp's and strong attack but it's certainly not unbeatable.

I see this as an issue of fluff or a lack of skill and we can all improve our skill level (myself included).
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#31 CrookedWookie

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:50 PM

The "dead" pilots don't bug me because the game creates it's own continuity. What I mean is, if Luke and Wedge can die on the table (but didn't onscreen), then the reverse is true so I'm fine with Biggs still being around. Like a JJ-style alternate timeline with the same building blocks, but things have played out differently. (And also I'm FAR too lazy to keep track of who's alive and who isn't and who's part of the Empire/Rebellion at this time or that...)

 

What bugs me PERSONALLY about Han AND Lando/Chewie flying YTs at the same time, is that they were all flying THE ACTUAL SAME SHIP in the movies.

 

Biggs flying with Arvel (or, you know, another X-wing pilot who came later) doesn't create an issue in my mind, because they both have their own ships as part of their own continuity (or whatever). While Han and Lando were both shown flying without the other, it was still the same, unique ship.

 

I DO wish that they'd made the enhanced stats part of the unique title while allowing everyone to fly a stock (ORS-style) YT. Honestly, I think they missed a really fun opportunity there, to let the big ships be customized to taste through an expanded set of Modification cards. You could end up in essentially the same place, upgrading a second YT to similar stats/abilities, but you could also follow another upgrade path entirely and fly two completely unique upgraded YTs or two uniquely upgraded Firesprays. I think that would have been a lot of fun!

 

The current set-up bugs me enough that I PERSONALLY would never fly Han and Lando together, but I'm also well aware that this is how the game was set up and if someone else wants to do that, I wouldn't say anything about it. 

 

(And, of course, there is also that chance that I might use a sharpie and some crayons to make, like, Eahdo Oalrisslah if I ever broke down and wanted to fly two upgraded YTs... :) )

OK but you just said in one breath 'pilots who never could have flown together at the same time don't bother me, because the game creates its own continuity.  Except it drives me up a wall that Han and Chewie can fly the Falcon at the same time, because it's impossible for them to have flown the same ship at the same time and violates continuity.'    ;)

 

You're clearly taking issue with one form of continuity over another.

 

What I find funny about this entire argument is that if they hadn't broken ranks when it came to the Falcon, and if the ORS had the same base stats as the named pilots (as with every single other ship in the game) this would be moot.  The only reason that door was opened for people to complain about it is that the stat line makes it clear that, titled or not, the named pilots are flying the Falcon, while the generic pilots are flying a stock 1300.

 

It's just a game balance issue.  They wanted to include a cheap version of the ship at a lower PS, and the only way to get it at the price point they wanted was to nerf the stats and make it a full 15 points cheaper than the cheapest named pilot.  That is an extraordinary jump in points, if you think about it.  

 

Yes, the named pilots are all flying the Falcon.  Yes, you can field two of them at a time if you're so inclined.  No, it doesn't make a lot of logical sense, but - again - neither do any of the other pilots you can fly together, so what's the point in getting all bent out of shape about this one ship doing it and letting all of the others slide?
 


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#32 allistorpreist

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:08 PM

Just because the YT's being flown by the named folks are not stock, doesn't mean they are "the Millenium Falcon".

 

YT's are relatively cheap, and Han, Chewy and Lando are all familiar enough with the falcon to get more juice out of a YT if there is a need. I figure, someone dropped them a YT, and they just set to work. Truth is, you put just any Outer Rim Smuggler into the Milenium faclon and they will get a little more, but they still won't be as strong or tough as Lando in a YT, and certainly not as smooth.

 

Sure, it is a little bit of stretch, but no more than say Biggs flying with Lando. And it is that or just accept that it is a game mechanic because they thought it would be cooler to pass around titles than it would to be stuck with just one pilot getting the goodies.


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#33 oneway

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:30 PM

No, I disagree, they are all the Falcon, they have to be so they can add the Falcon title card, and reap the benefits of the ship stats.

Also, why would Lando fly the falcon if he has the lady luck.. they have him in a YT because Han loaned the Falcon to him to use in the attack on the second deathstar.. it's really that simple, and why all the named cards are all the Falcon...
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#34 Galactic Funk

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:45 PM

?????

From a game play standpoint the ONLY thing that makes it the Millennium Falcon is if you use that title card on one and only one YT-1300.

Any issues with using two YT-1300's regardless of Falcon title is purely a fluff criticism.

#35 RookiePilot

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:46 PM

I am actually more bugged by how good the standard YT is than by having "two falcons" meaning that a standard YT should really suck in this game. It should be slow, have limited fire power, and die super easy. It should have a dial like a shuttle and fly like a brick. Lando to some extent, but most Han and Chewie, made many modifications to the standard YT such as upgrading the engines, installing military grade weapons and sensors, upgrading the hyperdrive, installing smuggling compartments, etc. To make it into the Falcon we all know and love. If the standard YT was a reasonably good ship to begin with, then both Luke and Leah would not have commented on how crappy it was the first time they each saw the Falcon, not knowing it had been heavily modified. Therefore it is really rather silly that all you get for geting the title card for the Falcon over a standard YT is an evade action. It should be that you get the current YT dial, stats, etc, and the standard YT should have a suckier dial and stat line to show how bad a stock YT would be.


I thought about this for a while. I was thinking that a stock freighter shouldn't have anywhere near the weaponry on the ORS. But then I realized, that's the point. These are smuggler ships. They have been upgraded. Just not nearly as well as the iconic characters could do. So, I'm good with it. I really don't need a helpless freighter for the game, I'm getting a transport to play that role.

#36 CrookedWookie

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:07 PM

?????

From a game play standpoint the ONLY thing that makes it the Millennium Falcon is if you use that title card on one and only one YT-1300.

Any issues with using two YT-1300's regardless of Falcon title is purely a fluff criticism.

From a gameplay standpoint, that is absolutely correct.

The argument being made - which I don't have an opinion on, simply because I think getting caught up in logic or continuity and trying to resolve them side by side with game mechanics is SILLY... - is that based on the stats of the named pilot YTs, it's clear they are intended to be the Falcon, title or no title, placed alongside a stock (or much closer to it) YT-1300 on the ORS.  

 

And I concur that I think those are pretty clearly supposed to represent the Falcon with three different iconic pilots, regardless of the title being there or not.

I just think it's fairly silly to get bent out of shape about it.   :D


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#37 Galactic Funk

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:10 PM

Agreed. I just can't see it as something worth spending anymore time on.

#38 JJFDVORAK

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:20 PM

 

I am actually more bugged by how good the standard YT is than by having "two falcons" meaning that a standard YT should really suck in this game. It should be slow, have limited fire power, and die super easy. It should have a dial like a shuttle and fly like a brick. Lando to some extent, but most Han and Chewie, made many modifications to the standard YT such as upgrading the engines, installing military grade weapons and sensors, upgrading the hyperdrive, installing smuggling compartments, etc. To make it into the Falcon we all know and love. If the standard YT was a reasonably good ship to begin with, then both Luke and Leah would not have commented on how crappy it was the first time they each saw the Falcon, not knowing it had been heavily modified. Therefore it is really rather silly that all you get for geting the title card for the Falcon over a standard YT is an evade action. It should be that you get the current YT dial, stats, etc, and the standard YT should have a suckier dial and stat line to show how bad a stock YT would be.

I thought about this for a while. I was thinking that a stock freighter shouldn't have anywhere near the weaponry on the ORS. But then I realized, that's the point. These are smuggler ships. They have been upgraded. Just not nearly as well as the iconic characters could do. So, I'm good with it. I really don't need a helpless freighter for the game, I'm getting a transport to play that role.

 

I am not overly worried about the weapons stats as the shield and hull.  If I remember correctly ORS has 10 total hit points and that is the same as the shuttle, a craft designed to transport the Emperor and other high ranking imperials through war zones.  And even move bothering is the fact that the Falcon and stock YT use the same dial.  A stock YT should not have a white 1 turn! It should be as bad if not worse than the shuttle.  I think when you upgrade and get the Falcon title, you should get the current stats of the named characters, the evade action and the current dial.  The stock YT should have a crappier dial and less HPs. 

 



#39 Hrathen

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:22 PM

I am echoing what has been said, but I will say it anyway.

 

The Falcon is unique - and it is a totally awesome upgrade that I put on Han Solo every time I take him.  It turns the YT-1300 from a relatively easy 50-ish victory points to a moderately hard 50-ish victory points.  One of the main reasons why I don't fly more than YT-1300 is because I can't give them both the Falcon Title.

 

Secondly dual YT-1300 list isn't that hard to beat.  Yes, it has a lot of hits, and yes, both ships have a 360 firing arc.  But when I am playing any turn when I can only shoot twice I consider to be a bad turn.  A Single YT-1300 with a couple of other ships probably X-wings is much harder to beat.  You increase your firepower by 50%.

 

In the last tournament I played it was the Dual Firesprays that were dominating.  The Fact that the lowed skill one, the Bounty Hunter is so cheap and doesn't have any stat cuts is awesome.

 

 (Omicron Shuttle+Gunner+EU)x2 Bounty hunter+Gunner

list would tear to YT-1300 apart.


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#40 oneway

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:26 PM

?????
From a game play standpoint the ONLY thing that makes it the Millennium Falcon is if you use that title card on one and only one YT-1300.
Any issues with using two YT-1300's regardless of Falcon title is purely a fluff criticism.

?????
From a game play standpoint the ONLY thing that makes it the Millennium Falcon is if you use that title card on one and only one YT-1300.
Any issues with using two YT-1300's regardless of Falcon title is purely a fluff criticism.


And again I'll disagree. There is no doubt all three are the Falcon.. title card or not.. if you fly Han, he's in the falcon... he flies no other ship.. Chewie is also in the Falcon, and has never been in another ship except the Tyderium...

I dont care about mechanics... it is obvious all three are in the falcon, they just didn't make them unique, probably cause they didn't think anyone would care, maybe they even didnt think anyone would fly them together because of the simple idea that all of them are the same ship..

It's perception, and clearly some will see it as they will, but many see it for what it is... this is why I am modifying either by paint or remodeling the ship entirely to differentiate between the Falcon and other ... read ORS .. YTs...

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