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Should FFG had made the Falcon unique?


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#1 Duraham

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:06 PM

EDIT: To prevent confusion, Chewbacca + Han + Lando would be refered to as the "falcon"

 

After seeing all the problems with double falcons essentially exploiting game mechanics to pull off very easily obtained wins, I'm wondering if FFG really did make a mistake in allowing 2 falcons to be played at the same time. I felt that the evade action on the MF title could have been easily added to the action bar, and then a dot placed next to the ship's name (ie. o YT-1300 Millennium Falcon, like how Darth Vader's ship is TIE Advanced X1 instead of the usual TIE Advanced)

 

At the same time, the "double falcon" lists currently played can still be used to a certain extent, but with the replacement of 1 (or 2) ORS for the 2nd falcon, so players who enjoy flying the list for its 2 hunky 360turrets can continue to do so, abeit less offensively but with much more customization options.


Edited by Duraham, 02 March 2014 - 10:37 PM.

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#2 Buhallin

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:08 PM

I agree with this, but from a fluff perspective as much as a game balance one.

 

Han, Chewie, and Lando are all flying the Falcon.  That's why it has the different stats.  It's a unique ship, and should have been somehow marked as such.

 

Probably too late now though.


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#3 Duraham

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:10 PM

I agree with this, but from a fluff perspective as much as a game balance one.

 

Han, Chewie, and Lando are all flying the Falcon.  That's why it has the different stats.  It's a unique ship, and should have been somehow marked as such.

 

Probably too late now though.

A simple FAQ errata should solve this rather easily, except that we still need to manually equip the MF title upgrade


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#4 SableGryphon

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:14 PM

There's no reason for this. The game isn't unbalanced by the double falcon lists. TIE Swarms often tear them apart, as do alpha strike lists, and rebel swarms, and good flying on most other lists. The trick is concentrated fire. Indeed, I would happily face double falcons with 3-4 Lambdas or 3 Firesprays.

 

From a fluff perspective, I'm not sure I agree either. Afterall, if the modifications can be done to one ship (the Falcon) by a single smuggler, why is it even a question whether a well organized rebellion could do so to more than one? Sure they may look different, but they are able to make A-Wings secretly in factories all over the empire and they are basically the same craft.


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#5 LukesFather

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:40 PM

I am confused by your post, the title card for the YT has 1 Falcon named card, with the dot.  You can fly one YT as the Falcon and the other as a YT.  

 

Alot of people say dual falcon when they mean a falcon and a yt.  the title gives you an evade. 


Edited by LukesFather, 02 March 2014 - 09:41 PM.

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Rebels -  3 A wing - 5 B wing - 2 E wing - 2 HWK - - 5 Xwing - 2 YT-1300 - 2 Y wing - 3 Z95
Imperials - 6 Tie/F - 1 Adv/T - 2 Firespray - 3 Tie/I - 1 Aces - 2 Lambda - 3 TIE/B - 2 Tie/P - 2 Tie/D

EPIC - GR-75

Custom - 1 YV-545 (yt1300 conversion)


#6 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:44 PM

Double Falcon is tough to beat if you're not expecting it, but it does have some fairly big issues.

  1. Even though it has amazingly consistent damage with it's 360* arc and Gunner, it's still only getting 2 ships worth of attacks per turn.
  2. Even though it has a lot of health to chew through, it's still only got 2 ships with 1 agility each to kill.

Great thing about it: it's a great fleet for low to mid tier dominance.

However, once you're mid tier +, you've got answers.

 

Contrast 2x Falcon with 4x B-Wing right quick.

 

YT vs B

3  vs 3               Dice per Attack

1  vs 1               Dice per Dodge

26 vs 32            Total HP of fleet(Hull + Shields)

6  vs 12             Maximum Damage at Range 2

8  vs 16             Maximum Damage at Range 1

 

B-Wings look to be winning thus far, aye? But there are some things we cannot define so easily with numbers.

The YT's damage has a greater guarantee, thanks to the Firing Arc and Gunner.

However, it's unlikely that only 2 B-Wings will have a shot at a time, so the accuracy bonus is mitigated by greater numbers.

The YT is very much more maneuverable on an empty board, particularly with Expert Handling on board.

However, B-Wings naturally have a barrel-roll, and having a small base allows them to navigate Asteroid Thickets and board positions that would leave the YTs vulnerable. Particularly with Advanced Sensors.

The YT is only flown with pilots with mid to high PS.

However, they don't actually get a counter-argument this time. High PS is an advantage in most situations (see the "Board Position" argument for the only exception), and the pilot abilities for YT-1300s are all great.

 

And so on and so forth.
Flying Double Falcon seems, basically, to be sacrificing fire-power and survivability in exchange for superb amounts of consistency, which is normally only gained by Player Experience.


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#7 Mace Windu

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:49 PM

I can't imagine FFG would ever create a model/figure that restricted you from playing more than 1 of it, that's just bad business as that would mean that players would only ever buy 1 of it.

 

As thematically relevant as your argument is I cant see them doing it, that's what the ship title cards are for, even if in this case the particular model of the Millennium Falcon is unique.

 

Simply a case of Function winning out over Form.


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Imperial Oppressors: 5 TIE Fighter, 3 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Interceptor, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Defender, 2 Firespray & 1 Shuttle


#8 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:50 PM

I am confused by your post, the title card for the YT has 1 Falcon named card, with the dot.  You can fly one YT as the Falcon and the other as a YT.  

 

Alot of people say dual falcon when they mean a falcon and a yt.  the title gives you an evade. 

"Fluff"-wise, Chewbacca, Lando, and Han Solo are all considered to be flying the Falcon (modded extensively by Han and Chewie in the backstory), regardless of the Title Card's ability, while the Outer Rim Smuggler's got a regular YT-1300.

I wonder how many points folks would pay for a title that gave +1 Attack, +2 Hull, +1 Shield, and Evade.

 

Though if we're going deep into fluff-land, the YT-1300 is beloved by smugglers for the amount of modifications it can take... and we've got the upgrade card-type called Modifications....



#9 Crabbok

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:53 PM

The Falcon IS Unique.   

 

  It's the YT-1300 that seems to have been mass produced!   heh


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#10 oneway

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:54 PM

I think what he means isnif you run Han, and Lando.. you technically have 2 Falcons. I understand that, I personally feel that Lando, Han, and Chewie shouldn't be allowed at the same time. They are all the Falcon.. the ORS is the stock YT and you should be able to fly as many as you can account for. Yes I know only the one with the Falcon card, but the others have the same stats, and no Evade... but they are still essentially the Falcon.

They easily could have done something similar to the Vader x1 .. maybe.. or just state that if one is in play the others cannot be.. so.. run Han, and 2 ORSs... have fun..
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#11 Crabbok

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:00 PM

I see what you are saying in a way.   Imagine if all the pilots were about as weak as the ORS, but the Falcon Title card gave evade, +1 attack, 2 hull, and missiles for example.  


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#12 Eltnot

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:01 PM

I should run an ORS with the Millenium Falcon title card, just to cause people to get butt hurt.

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#13 oneway

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:05 PM

I see what you are saying in a way.   Imagine if all the pilots were about as weak as the ORS, but the Falcon Title card gave evade, +1 attack, 2 hull, and missiles for example.


That would be a great solution. I'm sure some won't agree, but that's ok. I just feel they could have done it better than giving 3 ships the same stats and calling only one the 'stock' YT...
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#14 Duraham

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:28 PM

There's no reason for this. The game isn't unbalanced by the double falcon lists. TIE Swarms often tear them apart, as do alpha strike lists, and rebel swarms, and good flying on most other lists. The trick is concentrated fire. Indeed, I would happily face double falcons with 3-4 Lambdas or 3 Firesprays.

 

very much easier said than done, especially when paired up with engine upgrade or expert handling on the Falcon which has a higher PS than most of your TIEs or other ships with fixed forward firing arcs. Against an opponent who plays relatively safe and is rather new, yes focusing fire is an option. Against an opponent who keeps away with hard turn 1s, then suddenly rams into you with a forward 4 + overlap or optional barrel roll to avoid fire, then afterwards circle around behind you with easy turn 3 + curved boost, not funny anymore


Edited by Duraham, 03 March 2014 - 01:57 AM.


#15 yoink101

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:14 PM

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Absolutely.  Definitely.  Without hesitation.  They should absolutely have made the falcon a unique ship.  I don't mind seeing multiple YT-1300's, but it is absolutely unacceptable.  Blasphemy.  Horrendous.  To play more than one falcon on any one table at a time.  This is not a balance issue.  This is something greater, something holy.

 

Please, don't ever put two falcons on the same table.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, if you want to, go for it.  Just know, that you will never be accepted at our table.

 

 

 

I don't know if you can tell, but I feel strongly about this.


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#16 RedWilde

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:44 AM

Yup.  Han, Chewie, & Lando should have had the Falcon title printed on their cards with a dot beside the Falcon as well as the one beside the character names.  They only take turns flying the same ship.  I never fly two of those named pilots in the same squad.


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#17 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:21 AM

One is the falcon. One is a Yt. You cannot fly dual falcons. If you need a "fluf" reason for 2 named YT's to be "better than standar ORS": Lando, Chewie, and Han all have lots of contacts, lots of people that owe them favors, and would never choose to fly just a stock YT, they would choose the Falcon, and if for unknown reasons it's unavailable they would have no trouble finding another well outfitted one.

#18 stegocent

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:08 AM

Meh
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Rebel: 6 X-Wing, 2 Y-Wing, 2 A-Wing, 4 B-wing, 1 Yt-1300, 2 HWK-290, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#19 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:40 AM

I am confused by your post, the title card for the YT has 1 Falcon named card, with the dot.  You can fly one YT as the Falcon and the other as a YT.  

 

Alot of people say dual falcon when they mean a falcon and a yt.  the title gives you an evade. 

 

Because (unlike pretty much any other ship) the Named ships - which are all 'the Falcon' - have a better primary weapon attack as well. I know the Falcon was supposedly customised to hell, but that's the point of the Millenium Falcon title card; if it had been me I would have attached every difference to a stock YT to that card. Yes you can upgrade other YTs but then why does the outer rim smuggler only have 2 attack dice? Didn't he have the sense to do the same?


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#20 oneway

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:16 AM

One is the falcon. One is a Yt. You cannot fly dual falcons. If you need a "fluf" reason for 2 named YT's to be "better than standar ORS": Lando, Chewie, and Han all have lots of contacts, lots of people that owe them favors, and would never choose to fly just a stock YT, they would choose the Falcon, and if for unknown reasons it's unavailable they would have no trouble finding another well outfitted one.

 

I disagree, they all have the same stats.. I know they did it so that all you had to do was add the title card, but I really disagree that they just get beefed up YTs.. In the end it is all perspective and I'm not alone in my view here.

 

Chewie has never flown another YT in the movies, and the only other ship Lando has is the Lady Luck.. and its not a YT.. 

 

I think they should have made the stock YT and then given either a title card to get it to Falcon status or made the 3 amigos all Unique.. 

 

Edit:

also I think they missed an opportunity here to make a customized ship. You could have taken a few modifications and made your own YT.. that would have been cool. an interesting idea at the least.. 

maybe something like.. the stock YT has X points, and you can lay on it 3 modifications, dpecific to the YT and they add o the stock 'Price' of the ship.. add hull, sensors, shield, guns, missiles. 

 

We all forget that the dish on the falcon is a mod that Han added, stock YTs don't come with that.. 


Edited by oneway, 03 March 2014 - 03:20 AM.

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