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#1 bobbywhiskey

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:09 PM

So a local store is running a store championship tournament, but claims it will be single elim and not swiss, is this legal? Been digging through floor ruels trying to find something applicable to this.



#2 UnfairBanana

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:26 PM

I'm pretty sure official events are supposed to be run FFG's way. At least, that's what my FLGS said during our championship.


Rebels: 3 A-wings, 3 B-wings, 2 E-wing, 4 X-Wings, 2 Y- Wings, 2 Z-95s, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, 1 YT-2400, 1 GR-75 Space whale, 1 CR-90 Corvette

 

Empire: 6 TIE/LN, 4 TIE Interceptors, 2 TIE Bombers, 1 TIE Advanced, 2 TIE Defender, 2 TIE Phantom, 2 Firesprays, 1 Lambda, 1 VT-49


#3 Lappenlocker

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:30 PM

Edit: The TO is free to select the tournament format but Swiss style is preferred. See FFG's A Guide to Running Your Event

It looks like it is supposed to be Swiss style.
See the Seeding section of the current tournament rules.

Edited by Lappenlocker, 01 March 2014 - 04:10 PM.

Bob Bell, Wylie TX
Rebels: (5) X-Wings, (4) Y-Wings, (2) A-Wings, (2) B-Wings, (2) YT-1300s, (2) HWK-290s
Imperials: (9) TIE Fighters, (2) TIE Advanced, (2) TIE Interceptors, (2) TIE Bombers, (2) Lambda Shuttles, (2) Firespray-31s, (2) Imperial Aces

#4 HunterEste

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:44 PM

Did the owner say it was an 'official' tournament or is it just for fun. Don't be a headache for your Local Game Store owner or he'll just stop running those events.


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#5 Emrico

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:51 PM

Did the owner say it was an 'official' tournament or is it just for fun. Don't be a headache for your Local Game Store owner or he'll just stop running those events.


If it's a Store Championship and they are using the SC Kit, then it's an official event and needs to be run according to FFGs rules. If it is too "much of a headache" for the organizer to run it properly then he shouldn't run it at all.

Jim
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Rebels: 3 YT-1300s, 6 X-Wings, 6 Y-Wings, 6 A-Wings, 6 B-Wings, 4 HWK-290s,10 Z-95s, 3 E-Wings, 2 GR-75s, 1 CR-90
Imperials: 8 TIEs, 4 TIE Adv, 12 TIE Interceptors, 3 Firesprays, 6 TIE Bombers, 5 Lambdas, 3 TIE Defenders, 4 Phantoms

#6 HunterEste

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:26 PM

 

Did the owner say it was an 'official' tournament or is it just for fun. Don't be a headache for your Local Game Store owner or he'll just stop running those events.


If it's a Store Championship and they are using the SC Kit, then it's an official event and needs to be run according to FFGs rules. If it is too "much of a headache" for the organizer to run it properly then he shouldn't run it at all.

Jim

 

Where do you see that info posted? OP says nothing about an 'SC Kit', say nothing about it being official, heck my local game store does just for fun tournaments all the time in various games that aren't official...they do exist ;)

Honestly it sounds like the worst kind of customer for a LGS. We had a few like that who would heckle the owner about every little thing that they thought wasn't up to their "code". Guess what? The owner finally just stopped running those events and everyone suffered because of the mouthy few.

Again, don't be a PITA to your LGS owner, he works hard so you can have a place to play, abuse it and lose it.


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#7 Picasso

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:32 PM

Having just run a Store Championship I can tell you the rules are in the kit.
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#8 HunterEste

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:34 PM

People, people, people....no where has the op said that this is an official store championship....it's probably just a store tournament for fun and OP is using the wrong verbage. Until the OP reappears and clarifies I'm taking the side of the LGS Owner and hoping OP doesn't become one of those headache customers to him.



#9 Emrico

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:59 PM

People, people, people....no where has the op said that this is an official store championship....it's probably just a store tournament for fun and OP is using the wrong verbage. Until the OP reappears and clarifies I'm taking the side of the LGS Owner and hoping OP doesn't become one of those headache customers to him.


In the very first sentence he says it's a store championship tournament. Considering that we're right in the middle of the official store championships events schedule, its not that much of an assumption that the OP is talking about the official version, with the prize kit that includes a bye at Regionals. Those should be run the right way.

As for not being a PITA to the game store owner, that's a load of crap. Customers that support a business have every right to expect official events to be run using official rules.

Jim
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Rebels: 3 YT-1300s, 6 X-Wings, 6 Y-Wings, 6 A-Wings, 6 B-Wings, 4 HWK-290s,10 Z-95s, 3 E-Wings, 2 GR-75s, 1 CR-90
Imperials: 8 TIEs, 4 TIE Adv, 12 TIE Interceptors, 3 Firesprays, 6 TIE Bombers, 5 Lambdas, 3 TIE Defenders, 4 Phantoms

#10 HunterEste

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:38 PM

 

People, people, people....no where has the op said that this is an official store championship....it's probably just a store tournament for fun and OP is using the wrong verbage. Until the OP reappears and clarifies I'm taking the side of the LGS Owner and hoping OP doesn't become one of those headache customers to him.


In the very first sentence he says it's a store championship tournament. Considering that we're right in the middle of the official store championships events schedule, its not that much of an assumption that the OP is talking about the official version, with the prize kit that includes a bye at Regionals. Those should be run the right way.

As for not being a PITA to the game store owner, that's a load of crap. Customers that support a business have every right to expect official events to be run using official rules.

Jim

 

Ah, the angry entitled customer. The worst kind of customer.

Again, you assume it's official, and I'm asking for clarification (which hasn't been provided). Do you have something against 'the system'? :/

OP, please come back and clarify this for us.


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#11 Galactic Funk

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:53 PM

People, people, people....no where has the op said that this is an official store championship....it's probably just a store tournament for fun and OP is using the wrong verbage. Until the OP reappears and clarifies I'm taking the side of the LGS Owner and hoping OP doesn't become one of those headache customers to him.


In the very first sentence he says it's a store championship tournament. Considering that we're right in the middle of the official store championships events schedule, its not that much of an assumption that the OP is talking about the official version, with the prize kit that includes a bye at Regionals. Those should be run the right way.
As for not being a PITA to the game store owner, that's a load of crap. Customers that support a business have every right to expect official events to be run using official rules.
Jim
Ah, the angry entitled customer. The worst kind of customer.
Again, you assume it's official, and I'm asking for clarification (which hasn't been provided). Do you have something against 'the system'? :/
OP, please come back and clarify this for us.

Angry entitled customer? You got all that from the post? Interesting.

Considering the thread says "store championship", the post repeats "store championship" and the X-Wing Store Championships are going on right now you don't really need to go out on much of a limb to come to the conclusion that we are all talking about the same thing. After all where else do you see people using the term "store championship" to describe a random tournament?

And besides, if it was a random tournament why would he come on here to ask people if it was "legal"? That kind of describes something formal or sanctioned.

Or maybe by legal he's wondering if the government is going to come shut them down mid tournament and he doesn't want to get caught in the middle of that one.

;-)

#12 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:08 PM

Ah, the angry entitled customer. The worst kind of customer.

Again, you assume it's official, and I'm asking for clarification (which hasn't been provided). Do you have something against 'the system'? :/

OP, please come back and clarify this for us.

Everyone else's default assumption has been that when the store and/or the OP calls it a "store championship", it's a store championship. Your default assumption is that it's not a store championship, and that anyone who takes the OP at his or her word must be angry and entitled.

The OP asked a straightforward question: should Store Championship tournaments be run using Swiss? He or she deserves a straightforward answer: as others have noted, Swiss is the only sanctioned format for X-wing tournaments. It's perfectly possible to point this out to the TO politely, and I'd suggest that the OP do so.

#13 Duraham

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:18 AM

the paper insert within the kit says that the TO is free to do whatever he likes, so long as all the participants are informed about it beforehand and not like on the day itself.



#14 elfholme

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:33 AM

I haven't opened our kit yet, but the FFG OP Guide is very clear that the store gets to decide the tournament format. Swiss is the recommended format, but even that is only up to the point where the organizer decides to start running elimination rounds.

FWIW, our tournament will be Swiss.

Edited by elfholme, 01 March 2014 - 12:36 AM.


#15 HunterEste

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:03 AM

Uh oh....all those people clamoring that the LGS owner was being naughty sure look silly now. Be kind to you LGS owner and he'll be good to you. ;)

#16 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:47 AM

Uh oh....all those people clamoring that the LGS owner was being naughty sure look silly now. Be kind to you LGS owner and he'll be good to you. ;)


Your victory lap looks a little unjustified from my perspective. The OP was apparently right to call it a store championship, and everyone who pointed out what FFG's tournament rules say about Swiss format is also still right. The fact that the publicly available rules are superseded by a different rules document that's only available to SC TOs is going to give rise to a fair amount of confusion, but that reflects poorly on Fantasy Flight's Organized Play people--not the players who have read and understand the existing rules.

Edited by Vorpal Sword, 01 March 2014 - 10:49 AM.


#17 HunterEste

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:26 AM

 

Uh oh....all those people clamoring that the LGS owner was being naughty sure look silly now. Be kind to you LGS owner and he'll be good to you. ;)


Your victory lap looks a little unjustified from my perspective. The OP was apparently right to call it a store championship, and everyone who pointed out what FFG's tournament rules say about Swiss format is also still right. The fact that the publicly available rules are superseded by a different rules document that's only available to SC TOs is going to give rise to a fair amount of confusion, but that reflects poorly on Fantasy Flight's Organized Play people--not the players who have read and understand the existing rules.

 

I dunno about 'unjustified', I was on the LGS Owner's side and ended up being right ;) but if that upsets you, I understand.

 

People are so quick to jump on these owners' backs and readily assume they are up to no good, then wonder why there are less and less LGS and why the ones that remain only seem to play MTG....

 



#18 Lappenlocker

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:00 PM

I haven't opened our kit yet, but the FFG OP Guide is very clear that the store gets to decide the tournament format.

I don't doubt you... I'm just curious as to what document to which you are referring. Do you have a link to it?

Edit: found it. See subsequent post.

Edited by Lappenlocker, 01 March 2014 - 04:08 PM.

Bob Bell, Wylie TX
Rebels: (5) X-Wings, (4) Y-Wings, (2) A-Wings, (2) B-Wings, (2) YT-1300s, (2) HWK-290s
Imperials: (9) TIE Fighters, (2) TIE Advanced, (2) TIE Interceptors, (2) TIE Bombers, (2) Lambda Shuttles, (2) Firespray-31s, (2) Imperial Aces

#19 Lappenlocker

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:07 PM

I haven't opened our kit yet, but the FFG OP Guide is very clear that the store gets to decide the tournament format. Swiss is the recommended format, but even that is only up to the point where the organizer decides to start running elimination rounds.
FWIW, our tournament will be Swiss.


Is this the OP Guide to which you refer? Regardless, this document does clear state the although Swiss style is preferred, the TO is free to choose the tournament format.
Bob Bell, Wylie TX
Rebels: (5) X-Wings, (4) Y-Wings, (2) A-Wings, (2) B-Wings, (2) YT-1300s, (2) HWK-290s
Imperials: (9) TIE Fighters, (2) TIE Advanced, (2) TIE Interceptors, (2) TIE Bombers, (2) Lambda Shuttles, (2) Firespray-31s, (2) Imperial Aces

#20 StevenO

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:25 PM

I almost wonder what's the difference between running a full single-elimination tournament vs. running a few rounds of swiss before cutting to a top 4 or 8 and then having single elimination from there.

 

I know the BIG difference is the "LUCK" factor is ratcheted all the way up as there is no recovering from one bad game.  How to seed the tournament could also be debated.






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