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Cursed Glade question...


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#1 Artaterxes

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:09 PM

The FAQ says the Cursed Glade and Desert instructions apply only when you encounter the space, not the character.

Does that imply that all space instructions apply only when encountering the space? And thus, at no other time?
a) When you encounter another character, instructions don't apply.
b) On opponents' turns, instructions do not apply.

e.g. You land on Cursed Glade. Encounter the space, can't use magic. But encounter the character, and you can use magic. Regardless, during your opponents' turns, you can use magic (even though you are in the Cursed Glade).

#2 The_Warlock

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:41 AM

In Black Industries 4th Edition, it was specifically stated that your character can use Objects/Magic Objects and cast Spells again as soon as he leaves the Cursed Glade. In FFG 4ER I seriously doubt this is the rule to follow, but no wording or rule can support this.

Another candidate for a FAQ.



#3 Artaterxes

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:23 AM

Thanks for the insight.
I think the effects of the Desert, Runes, and Cursed Glade should be applied at all times. Yes, it makes sense to either encounter a character OR pray at the chapel, but how do you bypass the atmosphere of an entire space just because you aren't encountering it?

I would rather lose a life in the desert every time I entered it, regardless of what I planned on doing. And I'd rather not be able to use magic from when I enter the cursed glade to when I leave it. I mean, how do you explain to new players that it makes sense to use magic in the cursed glade just because you aren't encountering it?? It's much more true to the setting if it restricts magic always.

On a slightly different note, how do you explain that killing the "Dragon" that appears in the Cave can't fulfill the warlock's quest because its not an enemy with the dragon subtype? Yes for a rules lawyer who grew up playing Magic the Gathering this is fairly consistent but some rules make no thematic sense and it seems to always raise arguments for casual players.

#4 The_Warlock

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:59 AM

Thanks for the insight.
I think the effects of the Desert, Runes, and Cursed Glade should be applied at all times. Yes, it makes sense to either encounter a character OR pray at the chapel, but how do you bypass the atmosphere of an entire space just because you aren't encountering it?

I would rather lose a life in the desert every time I entered it, regardless of what I planned on doing. And I'd rather not be able to use magic from when I enter the cursed glade to when I leave it. I mean, how do you explain to new players that it makes sense to use magic in the cursed glade just because you aren't encountering it?? It's much more true to the setting if it restricts magic always.

 

The same should be for Graveyard and Chapel, according to the most opinions. However, the decision to instruct players to either encounter a space or encounter a character makes things extremely clear. If you choose to encounter the character, you ignore the instructions on the space in any case. The instructions on the space are valid until your encounter on the space is over (=only during your turn).

 

This is easier to explain to newbies than giving different instructions for certain spaces, I think.

 

On a slightly different note, how do you explain that killing the "Dragon" that appears in the Cave can't fulfill the warlock's quest because its not an enemy with the dragon subtype? Yes for a rules lawyer who grew up playing Magic the Gathering this is fairly consistent but some rules make no thematic sense and it seems to always raise arguments for casual players.

 

There was a thread recently which is called "Priest at Crags", where this topic has been discussed. Of course the difficulty to teach Talisman to new players requires a bit of patience from both the newbies and the more experienced players. There are definitions used in the manual and rules that are counterintuitive in certain situations, so they have to be learned as rules, not principles trying to recreate reality in detail. Sometimes we forget that Talisman 4th Edition is a widely improved and expanded reissue of Talisman 2nd edition, which was conceived in the Eighties and its basic game system is quite simple.

 

Maybe there's a way to "streamline" Talisman and remove mechanics that are absurd from the thematic point of view, but this game has so many possible interactions that Rules become often more relevant than realism. For example, making a rule so that no Horses and Mules can be brought into the Dungeon has thematic sense, but it's a cumbersome rule to write down and to apply consistently to all expansions. "My Colossus will follow me in a 2 m wide corridor, but my Mule cannot even try to enter". Further complexity needs to be added to card formatting and classification; words cannot be enough to enhance realism.

 

If I were to design Talisman from scratch, I would call the Spirit in the Crags and the Dragon in the Cave with different names, so that they won't be confused with Enemy subtypes.



#5 ososober

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:40 PM

 

The same should be for Graveyard and Chapel, according to the most opinions. However, the decision to instruct players to either encounter a space or encounter a character makes things extremely clear. If you choose to encounter the character, you ignore the instructions on the space in any case. The instructions on the space are valid until your encounter on the space is over (=only during your turn).

 

warlock, this is wrong, you are under the effects of the space you encoutered until you leave the space, see rulebook page 13 mage example

craft 5 plus solomons crown = craft 7 enters cursed glade craft is now 5 loses a spell, he does not regain craft 7 till he leaves the space.



#6 The_Warlock

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:58 AM

 

 

The same should be for Graveyard and Chapel, according to the most opinions. However, the decision to instruct players to either encounter a space or encounter a character makes things extremely clear. If you choose to encounter the character, you ignore the instructions on the space in any case. The instructions on the space are valid until your encounter on the space is over (=only during your turn).

 

warlock, this is wrong, you are under the effects of the space you encoutered until you leave the space, see rulebook page 13 mage example

craft 5 plus solomons crown = craft 7 enters cursed glade craft is now 5 loses a spell, he does not regain craft 7 till he leaves the space.

 

 

I know there's that example there to puzzle everybody. The example has been taken from Black Industries rulebook and it was never updated (so were most examples in the base game rulebook, including that famous Sorceress example).

 

Black Industries Cursed Glade explicitly worked until a character left the space. We have no statement about Revised 4th edition. The FAQ clearly says that a character is affected by the Cursed Glade only if he encounters the space. For the current rules, characters can have encounters only during their turn unless otherwise stated (see page 9), so in another character's turn I'm pretty comfortable in assuming that the space I've encountered during my turn won't affect me anymore, because the encounter is over.

 

Of course, I'm not pretending to persuade you by applying general rules. There's an example that is saying the opposite! The FAQ we're begging for should settle this issue as well as many others.



#7 talismanamsilat

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:47 AM

Agree with you totally Warlock.



#8 The Hunter

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:27 PM

The Dragon expansion rulebook states that if you encounter a dragon scale all instructions on the space are ignored, and the text on the space has no effect on the character or cards whatsoever.

#9 Artaterxes

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:22 AM

As a side note, I've given up trying to standardize or enforce rules about this game or any other American style game because nobody seems to agree. Thanks for the responses. I'll just go with whatever the majority at the table feel like doing to keep them happy.

Edited by Artaterxes, 29 March 2014 - 09:23 AM.


#10 JediKnightAmoeba

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 11:17 AM

You are hating on the Americans there buddy....and to be fair, Talisman is originally an English game, not American!   :D


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