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Colonist Book next, please!


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#41 DavenQuint

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:37 PM

Well-Rounded gives the scholar the flexibility to have martial training. Trying to shove warfare in with strategist would overlap the strategist role already being introduced in Age of Rebellion.

 

The Baron as described still sounds like more of a background than a job, your GM could throw a lot of money at the Politico or Merchant and he could do the same things, especially if he buys both specializations. The point of new careers thus far from EtU and DC has been to fill niches - hunting animals, ancient civilizations, planetary vehicles, etc - and for the colonist expansion one should look for niches. Most people here seem to agree on entertainment and agrarian skills. These are emphasized as jobs.

 

Fair enough. I don't agree. That said, I'll quote 2P51.

 

"There are a ton of jobs that might go for Colonists, I just don't think many people want to play moisture farmers as an adventurer..."

 

I don't think most people agree that entertainment and agrarian skills are the bright shining ideas for the Colonist. :P


Edited by DavenQuint, 01 March 2014 - 12:38 PM.

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#42 2P51

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:50 PM

I'm OK with entertainer, there are ways to backdoor in skulduggery and deception and such.  Agrarian, though, I'm not feeling that.    It might be easier to rule out what either fits better in other careers and or would just not give much potential for being terribly heroic, in addition what is really already covered.

 

My idea of Missionary I shot down myself because it was really a Politic with another name.

 

Any sort of law enforcement option, the notion of dealing with criminals at all, albeit in a non lethal or negotiated way, is something that would just fit better into BH.  Remember there will be a need for BHs too and it just fits perfectly there.

 

You can't get real tech oriented because you've already got a tech career.

 

Colonies need professions.  The need leaders.  They need skills.  They need commerce.  They need recreation.

 

Strategist = Leader.  Pretty easy to incorporate and fits into the career.

 

Merchant = Commerce.  People sometimes (myself included) forget Trader is in Explorer, not Colonist.  So an easy one imo, it doesn't need to be a renaming of Trader could be a fusion of Trader and Quarter Master with some new spec Talent and maybe a dash of Computers.

 

Entertainer = Recreation.  I think someone to Charm, baffle with Sleight of Hand, Deception type talents.  Someone who can heal and buff strain.


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#43 2P51

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:53 PM

I wrote agrarian, what I meant was combat.

Combat is completely contradictory to the Career write up though.  I could see buffing others through things like Field Commander and Fire Control.


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#44 FangGrip

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:56 PM

I wrote agrarian, what I meant was combat.

 

Watch out for those Farmers who specialize into Marauder.  They tend to have vibro-pitchforks.   :D


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#45 Spjork

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:32 PM

 

If you look at the career description in the CRB though without saying it in as many words, it basically lays it out that colonists are not fighters.  They're supposedly bringing their better education and smarts to bear in order to accomplish things in their new world.  I think colonist needs the most help but with the description in the CRB it just seems tough to me for expansion to be meaningful.

 

 

My reasoning behind the Duelist, or some similarly named spec, is that this is someone who does bring their education and smarts to bear. It just so happens that that education and those smarts are more focused in the realm of classical fighting styles. To use a Wild West analogy, this would be someone who draws an epee or a katana in the midst of a saloon brawl.

 

I'm thinking it would do for the Colonist what Big Game Hunter did for the Explorer, add a combat-saavy spec without stepping outside the bounds of the Career's archetype.



#46 2P51

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:50 PM

"A colonist doesn't tend to have the training to survive in areas of high conflict and he isn't particularly adept at physical exploits".  CRB p. 62

 

My reasoning behind why colonists are not fighters in combat or focused on physical exploits.  To me a duelist is a background description for a Marauder.


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#47 DavenQuint

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:51 PM

 

 

If you look at the career description in the CRB though without saying it in as many words, it basically lays it out that colonists are not fighters.  They're supposedly bringing their better education and smarts to bear in order to accomplish things in their new world.  I think colonist needs the most help but with the description in the CRB it just seems tough to me for expansion to be meaningful.

 

 

My reasoning behind the Duelist, or some similarly named spec, is that this is someone who does bring their education and smarts to bear. It just so happens that that education and those smarts are more focused in the realm of classical fighting styles. To use a Wild West analogy, this would be someone who draws an epee or a katana in the midst of a saloon brawl.

 

I'm thinking it would do for the Colonist what Big Game Hunter did for the Explorer, add a combat-saavy spec without stepping outside the bounds of the Career's archetype.

 

 

That second paragraph is precisely what my thought was behind the Strategist: add a combat-saavy (albeit Intellect/Cunning based) specialization without stepping on the toes of others. 

 

The Duelist is an interesting idea though. I wonder if you could incorporate those kind of classical dueling/fencing skills into a couple of talents for the Noble/Baron concept. That would fit as well and broaden that out a little more...


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#48 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:44 PM

I don't think a Duelist type of spec, one that focuses more on precision attacks than raw damage in melee, would be out of place for the Colonist.  I've seen remarks by professional fencers that while they'd fare well in the one-on-one type of fights they are trained to compete in, they're not going to do quite so well in the more chaotic mess that is a general combat.

 

After all, classical European fencing was more a domain of the affluent and educated elite, and the Colonist certainly counts towards being amongst the affluent and elite (even if that was more in their past).  The Tapani Saber Rakes (the vast bulk of whom are nobles) would certainly be an example of a Colonist/Duelist.  Instead of the raw damage that the Marauder gets by way of Feral Strength, the Duelist would instead feature talents such as Lethal Blows (making this precision attacks hurt), either Anatomy Lessons (using their superior intellect to up the damage) or Targeted Blow (using quick reflexes to do the same), Deadly Accuracy, maybe even Precise Aim and a Quick Strike or two to round out theoffensive talents.  Dodge would be the foremost defensive talent, maybe with a rank or two of Grit to help keep the Duelist's Strain total from exceeding their Threshold too quickly, with perhaps one rank each of Defensive Stance and Toughened.  Then perhaps a talent that allows the Duelist to use their Agility instead of Brawn when making Brawl/Melee attacks, and top it off with Dedication.

 

While an Entertainer spec might not be the most exciting of specs to play for most folks, I'd personally like to see it.  It could take a few notes (heh) from the D&D Bard, being a combination of party buff/support in combat while really playing up the social prowess and celebrity status (however minor).  Perhaps even including talents that leave adversaries disoriented at first but improves up to staggered.  Probably could user the existing Leadership talents to reflect how the Entertainer is able to "inspire the troops", though Inspiring Rhetoric (already a big part of the Politico) does that to an extent by restoring lost Strain; perhaps something that provides a boost die to checks of a certain number of allies (Presence?), but ranked so that each additional increases the size of the affected audience, in effect making it Ranks x Presence(?) = audience size.

 

I also like the idea of a "sheriff" spec, reflecting an educated law dog as opposed to the more rough'n'tumble type you'd get if using a Hired Gun or Bounty Hunter as the base career.


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#49 InOzWeTrust

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:00 PM

I feel like colonist is pretty solid. I mean Scholor needs love but Politico and Doctor are powerful and in some cases indispensable parts of a crew. With the Hired Gun book we got specifics on what kinds of jobs Hired Guns get offered and sample scenarios along with basic pay scales which is I'm super hopeful that Bounty Hunter would come soon. That said my order for classes in the needs love/needs more info order.

 

  1. Smuggler: Thief is incredibly weak as a spec. Smuggling runs and prompts would be stellar for proper pricing of goods. Considering they didn't put much of galactic travel information/rules/encounters into the Explorer book that makes sense Smugglers would be the place for it. I need rules for my asteroid pirate ambush encounters!
  2. Technician: Slicer is weaksauce and as much as Outlaw Tech wishes it was it's a poor combat choice. Salvage rules are non existant as are Computer/Astrogation times for checks. What's the point of having reduced calculation/salvage time if you don't have rules for how long the checks take?
  3. Colonist: OK I kind of want Bounty Hunter first but Colonist needs some combat love so they get the nod first.
  4. Bounty Hunter: New classes aren't needed for this class so it goes last. What I want from this book is more high tech gadgets for catching Aquisitions and pricing/modular encounters for bounties.

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#50 2P51

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:01 PM

I don't think a Duelist type of spec, one that focuses more on precision attacks than raw damage in melee, would be out of place for the Colonist.  I've seen remarks by professional fencers that while they'd fare well in the one-on-one type of fights they are trained to compete in, they're not going to do quite so well in the more chaotic mess that is a general combat.

 

After all, classical European fencing was more a domain of the affluent and educated elite, and the Colonist certainly counts towards being amongst the affluent and elite (even if that was more in their past).  The Tapani Saber Rakes (the vast bulk of whom are nobles) would certainly be an example of a Colonist/Duelist.  Instead of the raw damage that the Marauder gets by way of Feral Strength, the Duelist would instead feature talents such as Lethal Blows (making this precision attacks hurt), either Anatomy Lessons (using their superior intellect to up the damage) or Targeted Blow (using quick reflexes to do the same), Deadly Accuracy, maybe even Precise Aim and a Quick Strike or two to round out theoffensive talents.  Dodge would be the foremost defensive talent, maybe with a rank or two of Grit to help keep the Duelist's Strain total from exceeding their Threshold too quickly, with perhaps one rank each of Defensive Stance and Toughened.  Then perhaps a talent that allows the Duelist to use their Agility instead of Brawn when making Brawl/Melee attacks, and top it off with Dedication.

 

While an Entertainer spec might not be the most exciting of specs to play for most folks, I'd personally like to see it.  It could take a few notes (heh) from the D&D Bard, being a combination of party buff/support in combat while really playing up the social prowess and celebrity status (however minor).  Perhaps even including talents that leave adversaries disoriented at first but improves up to staggered.  Probably could user the existing Leadership talents to reflect how the Entertainer is able to "inspire the troops", though Inspiring Rhetoric (already a big part of the Politico) does that to an extent by restoring lost Strain; perhaps something that provides a boost die to checks of a certain number of allies (Presence?), but ranked so that each additional increases the size of the affected audience, in effect making it Ranks x Presence(?) = audience size.

 

I also like the idea of a "sheriff" spec, reflecting an educated law dog as opposed to the more rough'n'tumble type you'd get if using a Hired Gun or Bounty Hunter as the base career.

 

Duelist is still just describing a background for a Marauder that comes from wealth and the Core.  The Colonist career description doesn't just say no combat, it says the Colonist is not adept at physical exploits.  Not a terribly good basis for any sort of combatant really, particularly a physically based one.


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#51 DavenQuint

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:36 PM

I tend to agree with 2P51 on this. I don't think an entire specialization should be devoted to dueling despite it being a nifty concept. Rather it would make more sense to be broken down into one or two talents in a Noble or Baron Specialization that was broader while still filling the niche of an affluent Core Worlder looking to bring his high society power out into the Rim.

 

If you did something along those lines, it would still hold true to the fact that the Colonist overall is not an adept at physical exploits while retaining a couple of dueling-focused talents that slightly enhance the fighting pedigree of one of the six specializations within the career.

 

That's just my opinion of course. Naturally, I think it's a good one. :)


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#52 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:09 PM

2P51,

The exact same thing could be said of the Big Game Hunter.  After all, isn't that really just a Bounty Hunter with the Survivalist spec when you get down to brass tacks?  Same with the Driver, which ultimately is just a rebrand of the core concept of the Pilot spec; i.e. someone that's really good at operating vehicles.  And operating under that same logic, the Demolitionist is really just another rebrand, this time of the Saboteur from Age of Rebellion, so obviously it's not needed by what you're arguing.  And yet... all three exist, in spite of there already being a "previous version that does the same thing."

 

I think there's enough difference and variation between various specializations to warrant something like the Duelist as a contrast to the "overwhelming brute force" approach that is the Marauder.  As with the examples I listed above, they ultimately do the same thing, but each has a different approach to how they do it, much as the Driver and Pilot have different ways of being expert pilots, as the Big Game Hunter and Survivalist have of being expert trackers & marksman, and how Demolitionist and Saboteur have of making an awfully big mess of things.


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#53 pashacordaro420

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:09 PM

In my opinion i think that the bounty hunter or technician then the colonist are my three choices sry guys im a combat man

#54 2P51

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:09 PM

2P51,

The exact same thing could be said of the Big Game Hunter.  After all, isn't that really just a Bounty Hunter with the Survivalist spec when you get down to brass tacks?  Same with the Driver, which ultimately is just a rebrand of the core concept of the Pilot spec; i.e. someone that's really good at operating vehicles.  And operating under that same logic, the Demolitionist is really just another rebrand, this time of the Saboteur from Age of Rebellion, so obviously it's not needed by what you're arguing.  And yet... all three exist, in spite of there already being a "previous version that does the same thing."

 

I think there's enough difference and variation between various specializations to warrant something like the Duelist as a contrast to the "overwhelming brute force" approach that is the Marauder.  As with the examples I listed above, they ultimately do the same thing, but each has a different approach to how they do it, much as the Driver and Pilot have different ways of being expert pilots, as the Big Game Hunter and Survivalist have of being expert trackers & marksman, and how Demolitionist and Saboteur have of making an awfully big mess of things.

Not the exact same thing can't be said.  I didn't just say Duelist is Marauder with a wealthy core background, although it is more likely,  I posted a direct quote from the career write up.  Feel free to post any quote you like from the CRB like I did that specifically rules out Big Game Hunter or Driver for the Explorer career.

 

The career description for Colonist is very clear and listed in one single sentence and points out the Colonist is not one for combat nor physical activities.  I don't think given that description of the career by the developers that a duelist would be a proper expansion specialization for the career.  A duelist would be a combat spec and that just doesn't fit the Colonist description imo and the write up in the CRB.


Edited by 2P51, 01 March 2014 - 10:24 PM.

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#55 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:09 PM

Here are some of my thoughts:

 

Bureaucrat

Some Trader, some Quartermaster. 

 

Laborer

A bunch of the tough guy talents without being a combat guy (perhaps a touch of brawl). 

 

Noble

A bit like the Politco, but more about access to things/places/people. Being a noble opens doors.

 

Entertainer

Some social, some access (as above), a touch of scoundrel

 

Could also pull one of AoR's in, like Scientist or Agitator.


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#56 RogueCorona

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:05 AM

Honestly I think it makes sense for colonist to have some kind of spec which allows for tactical skills.

 

A: It would be very unlikely for an organized group setting out to establish a colony in most eras of Star Wars without planning for a militia, including trying to recruit leaders for it IMO.

 

B: There are probably a lot of former military personal who just want to leave their pasts behind and start over. Officers who did well in the Planetary security or judicial forces but for some reason couldn't cut it in the Empire, Or former CIS officers who weren't high profile enough to end up wanted by the Empire. Sure many like that would join the Alliance or go pirate or merc but I would be surprised if there weren't a substantial number who just wanted to get away from it all and saw helping set up and defend a new colony as a way to do so.

 

It will be interesting to see what a colonist book would have for equipment and vehicles. I imagine it will have some cheap and low maintenance starfighter and freighter/transport classes and possibly some older corvette, frigate, or light cruiser classes



#57 2P51

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:24 AM

I would think the next book would definitely have some kind of transport/shuttle type ships.  Perhaps some commerce specific type vessels, like asteroid mining ships.

 

I would imagine a smattering of weapons and gear.  You would think with the maintenance needs there might be some increased information on droids, more types, options for NPC ones or something.

 

DC has prices for different jobs.  Maybe expanded information on trade and commerce in general.


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#58 HappyDaze

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:29 AM

For vehicles and starships I would expect the Colonist book to have yachts, passenger liners, specialty transports (emergency medical vehicles, etc.), and other non-freight ships. However, I doubt that it will have all that many vehicles since neither the career nor any current specializations are focused on vehicles.


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#59 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:26 AM


Not the exact same thing can't be said.  I didn't just say Duelist is Marauder with a wealthy core background, although it is more likely,  I posted a direct quote from the career write up.  Feel free to post any quote you like from the CRB like I did that specifically rules out Big Game Hunter or Driver for the Explorer career.

 

The career description for Colonist is very clear and listed in one single sentence and points out the Colonist is not one for combat nor physical activities.  I don't think given that description of the career by the developers that a duelist would be a proper expansion specialization for the career.  A duelist would be a combat spec and that just doesn't fit the Colonist description imo and the write up in the CRB.

 

And the same idea of "Nobles aren't combatants by default" was present in Saga Edition as well, and they eventually got a Duelist talent tree.  They didn't turn into front-line combatants (low hit points and reliance on mental ability scores) being a major reason.  Design conceits can and do change over the course of an RPG's life.

 

And that quote you're so hell bent on using as justification for "Colonists should NEVER have a combat-related spec" is nothing more than a generalization.  Note the "doesn't tend to have the training to survive in areas of high conflict."  It's a descriptive tendency of Colonists, not an iron-clad rule.  It'd be the same sort of sweeping generalization as saying that all Scots and those of Scottish descent (of which I am one) are belligerent drunks, or that anyone of Native American heritage is part of the "beads and feathers" crowd when those two statements are very much NOT the case.

 

As I described above when pitching ideas for a Duelist spec, it'd be something that'd excel in it's given focus (single combat using light melee weapons) but not be quite as good outside that focus (your average bar brawl or protracted blaster fight).  The only combat skill offered as a bonus career skill would be Melee, and any new talents could be worded to restrict them to one-handed melee weapons.

 

But, if you want to remain doggedly and rabidly leashed to the narrow-minded conceit that "Colonists should be non-combat characters only," that's your choice.


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#60 HappyDaze

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:45 AM

I would think a Duelist would have access to both Melee and Ranged (Light) as specialization skills just to make a more flexible specialization. Have one column somewhat specific to each skill and then two columns of various abilities.


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