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Dangerous Covenants gives us the secret of sucky stormtroopers.


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#21 HappyDaze

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:45 PM

The Pistol Grip attachment mentions that many rifles have a pistol-like grip by default, but that isn't the same as the Pistol Grip attachment, which also mentions that it lightens the weapon for one-handed use. The attachment is also not compatible with weapons with the Cumbersome quality.


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#22 Sturn

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:46 PM

Think of weapons like blaster rifles as having traditional rifle grips, rather than the modernized grip that many assault weapons possess. The modification of a pistol grip would then radically alter the weapon's profile. The difference would be something like this: http://m1family.com/.../1297817677.jpg Props and artwork aren't necessarily properly representing a "stock" item as presented in EoE.

 

But they don't. I can't think of a single blaster from pistol to carbine to rifle to repeater in the Star Wars movies that doesn't have the pistol grip (the bottom picture in your link) as opposed to the top pic. The weapons in core actually give examples of the weapons they represent. Examples given for Blaster Carbines, Blaster Rifles, and Heavy Blaster Rifles in the core book are the E-11, A280, DLT-19, and RT-97C. They ALL have pistol grips. I seriously can't think of a single blaster that doesn't have a pistol grip. Only the slugthrowers didn't have such.



#23 Sturn

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:47 PM

The Pistol Grip attachment mentions that many rifles have a pistol-like grip by default, but that isn't the same as the Pistol Grip attachment, which also mentions that it lightens the weapon for one-handed use. The attachment is also not compatible with weapons with the Cumbersome quality.

 

So it says many rifles already have a pistol-like grip.......but those aren't like THIS pistol-like grip??

 

Again I think the designers got enamored with the name of the grip (pistol). They should have went with a "Forearm Grip" attachment giving the same bonus and penalties instead.


Edited by Sturn, 02 March 2014 - 04:50 PM.


#24 HappyDaze

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:58 PM

 

The Pistol Grip attachment mentions that many rifles have a pistol-like grip by default, but that isn't the same as the Pistol Grip attachment, which also mentions that it lightens the weapon for one-handed use. The attachment is also not compatible with weapons with the Cumbersome quality.

 

So it says many rifles already have a pistol-like grip.......but those aren't like THIS pistol-like grip??

 

Again I think the designers got enamored with the name of the grip (pistol). They should have went with a "Forearm Grip" attachment giving the same bonus and penalties instead.

 

How would a Forearm Grip - which pretty much requires using the weapon two-handed to benefit from - do the same thing as a Pistol Grip (namely making the weapon usable one-handed)?


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#25 Sturn

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:10 PM

 

How would a Forearm Grip - which pretty much requires using the weapon two-handed to benefit from - do the same thing as a Pistol Grip (namely making the weapon usable one-handed)?

 

Good point. I was trying to come up with something new that was not "Pistol Grip", which all of the blasters already have.

 

I was imagining a larger blaster rifle being used like a "lighter" weapon fired from the hip instead of from the usual shoulder for larger weapons. Thus, Ranged (Light). Yes Light are one-handed and Heavy are two-handed but the description given above for Pistol Grip was:

 

"weapon skill changes to ranged light but add a black die if wielded one handed". Also shortens to medium range".

 

It said IF wielded one handed as if it were a choice. If "Forearm Grip" was used instead it could have read something like: "Weapon hold is reconfigured to fire from the hip with addition of the forearm grip, allowing it to be shot with Ranged (light) but also shortening range to Medium". That was more of what I was thinking of while I admit ignoring the 1-handed vs. 2-handed of Ranged skills which apparently the designers ignored also since the Pistol Grip made one-handed just an option when using Ranged (light), not a requirement.


Edited by Sturn, 02 March 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#26 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:59 PM

A bit of a tangent, but this discussion does bring up an interesting point regarding the Pistol Grip attachment.

 

Frankly, is the shooter required to use the attachment at all times?

 

As part of keying up all the Dangerous Covenants crunch for OggDude, I've been reading (and re-reading) quite a fair chunk of the material, and with Pistol Grip, i could see a GM ruling either way.

 

Personally, I'd say it's an option, and that if the shooter wants to use Ranged (Heavy) as would be normal for a blaster rifle that has the Pistol Grip attachment, then the shooter can go ahead and use Ranged (Heavy) as their attack skill and pretty much disregard the rules of the Pistol Grip as they're using the rifle properly.

 

In the movies, we see the stormtroopers constantly using their E-11 blaster rifles* with two hands, one on the grip and another under the barrel to improve their aim.  And yes, I'm one of those that thinks the main reason we say the stormtroopers being so inaccurate during the escape sequence in ANH was they were under orders to let them escape.  It also goes to show the level of devotion and dedication they have to the New Order that these men were willing to put themselves at great risk (with several of them dying in the process) just to further Vader's plan of action (let them escape and track them via homing device).

 

*to my dying day I will insist those bloody things should have been termed carbines in the RPG rather than being rifles


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#27 Sturn

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:15 PM

 

*to my dying day I will insist those bloody things should have been termed carbines in the RPG rather than being rifles

 

I'm with you brother! I've been preaching this one for a long while. Ever since some ONE person at WEG descided to call it a rifle instead of a carbine and screwed it up for all games following.

 

1. The prop is a Sterling SUBMACHINEGUN, a weapon typically SMALLER then a carbine in size, not LARGER then a carbine like a rifle.

2. You can holster it on your hip.

3. You can shoot it one handed.

 

Based on those three, how can you call it a Rifle on the Pistol-Carbine-Rifle spectrum? There's a better argument to make it a Pistol with a folding stock then a Rifle if you couldn't choose Carbine.


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#28 Jegergryte

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:16 AM

Do we ever see the E-11 rifles with their stock extended? Because I'm pretty sure it's mostly folded in the films, basically making it a very large pistol, if the fluff text on page 162 of the CRB is anything to go by. Few of the scenes in ANH go beyond short range, some up to medium sure.


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#29 HappyDaze

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:52 AM

Do we ever see the E-11 rifles with their stock extended? Because I'm pretty sure it's mostly folded in the films, basically making it a very large pistol, if the fluff text on page 162 of the CRB is anything to go by. Few of the scenes in ANH go beyond short range, some up to medium sure.

The stormtroopers on Tatooine that carried rifles appeared to be carrying an entirely different weapon. IIRC, its considered to be either a heavy blaster rifle or a light repeating blaster these days.


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#30 Sturn

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:36 AM

 

Do we ever see the E-11 rifles with their stock extended? Because I'm pretty sure it's mostly folded in the films, basically making it a very large pistol, if the fluff text on page 162 of the CRB is anything to go by. Few of the scenes in ANH go beyond short range, some up to medium sure.

The stormtroopers on Tatooine that carried rifles appeared to be carrying an entirely different weapon. IIRC, its considered to be either a heavy blaster rifle or a light repeating blaster these days.

 

 

Depending on what film version you watch, there are lots of weapons carried by the Stormtroopers on Tatooine (my preferences in parenthesis):

 

The E11 Rifle (carbine w/folding stock)

The DLT-19/20 Heavy Blaster Rifle (heavy blaster rifle full auto capable with bipod, so pseudo light repeater)

The T-21 (fat barrel) Light Repeater (ion cannon)

The RT-97 Heavy Blaster Rifle (rapid assault stockless heavy blaster rifle)






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