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#21 2P51

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:46 PM

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#22 Sternguard777

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:05 PM

It says in the CRB that examples of Heavy Battle Armor include Mandalorian Shock Trooper Armor (ie the kind worn by Jango and Boba Fett). Seems pretty clear what FFG intended. Though of course in practice you can use whatever armor you like.
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#23 R2builder

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:43 AM

For now the correct answer is what ever the GM wants it be. If you say Heavy Armor, then to you it is Heavy Armor. I can not look at Boba Fett's armor and see Heavy Armor though. It has no protection for the legs. The guantlets aren't there for protection as much as housing for his special weapons. One thing I am pretty sure of, you can not get a good approximation of his armor by the CRB. This book just does not deal with that sort of thing yet. His torso is a lot more protected than the lower half of his body, so he is essentially wearing different types of armor. Right now the game says you have armor or you don't. Not a rating for torso, and a another rating for legs. It is the same rating everywhere. Now, and I hope, the game may come out with optional hit location rules, then having two different areas of differing values of protection could come in. I have not seen on this thread, and I could have missed it, but I have not seen anyone take into account that Boba Fett will probably be a gadgeteer, and will have boosted the rating of his armor well above the original design specs. That outfit is definitely not factory fresh.

If you look at the dented helmet costuming forum, and other builders of Fett armor, they identify Fett as wearing a flight suit, now that could that could be padded or armored and a flak vest with armored plating. So to me, I wouldn't give his armor too much of a bonus, and add the stuff from Gadgateer. What I really think will Boba Fett the best boost in this game will be the Adversary 3.
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#24 Shamrock

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:20 AM

Just sayin... heavy armor and a jet pack makes for an awful lot of encumbrance for someone that's supposed to be mobile. 


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#25 HappyDaze

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:28 AM

Just sayin... heavy armor and a jet pack makes for an awful lot of encumbrance for someone that's supposed to be mobile. 

Jury Rigged on Heavy Battle Armor results in no Encumbrance when worn.


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#26 hencook

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:52 AM

So just try to logically deduce it:

 

Boba Fett has Mandalorian Armor. His armor is the best of the best. Since Boba Fett only wears partial protection, this adds a complication. For now, let's remove that complication by supposing that Boba Fett's armor covers his entire body. What would that be?

 

Here's some examples to run off of first: Heavy Battle Armor 2Soak 1Def costing 5000, Personal Deflector 0Soak 2Def costing 10000.

So just making this up: Full Mandalorian Armor, Rugged and Worn: 2 Soak, 2 Def, Cost 20000, with Cortosis property and the Superior Quality for an additional 1 soak.

 

But Boba Fett's not wearing Full Mandalorian Armor. Actually, how much of his body is covered?

Arms 10/20%

Legs 2/30%

Pelvis 12.5/12.5%

Torso 22/20%

Head 12.5/12.5%

Neck 3/5%

 

I'd guesstimate that 62% of his body surface is covered with armor. So next, we round down a full mandalorian armor to Boba Fett.

 

62% of Soak 3 is 1.86, so I'll round that to Soak 2.

62% of Defense 2 is 1.24, and I'll round that down to Defense 1.

 

So Boba Fett's got an average coverage of Soak 2, Defense 1, Cortosis and Superior armor.

 

If someone chooses to aim at a specific part, however, then we can get into the nitty gritty of it. If the person chooses to shoot at Boba's Chest, I'd say that's 100% armor right there, so he'll get a Soak 3 and Defense 2 for it. If they decide to fire at his legs, that'll get a 0 Soak and 0 Defense.


Edited by hencook, 27 February 2014 - 02:55 AM.


#27 R2builder

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:06 AM

Wow, Hencook, run your game as you like, but holy crap, that is too much man! I would just give him soak 3 and defense 1 and be done with it. Also I would give Fett Adversary 4.

 

:P


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#28 hencook

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:13 AM

Wow, Hencook, run your game as you like, but holy crap, that is too much man! I would just give him soak 3 and defense 1 and be done with it. Also I would give Fett Adversary 4.

 

:P

 

Hehe, nonsense. The post looks huge, but it was mostly me just detailing how I got to Boba Fett's armor of Soak 2, Defense 1, with the added caveat that aiming at an unarmored area should do unarmored damage.



#29 HappyDaze

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:19 AM

;)

 

 

Wow, Hencook, run your game as you like, but holy crap, that is too much man! I would just give him soak 3 and defense 1 and be done with it. Also I would give Fett Adversary 4.

 

:P

 

Hehe, nonsense. The post looks huge, but it was mostly me just detailing how I got to Boba Fett's armor of Soak 2, Defense 1, with the added caveat that aiming at an unarmored area should do unarmored damage.

 

And to think that I got to the same values of Soak and Defense by just looking at the entry for Heavy Battle Armor...


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#30 Col. Orange

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:04 AM

I tried to use Boba's load-out as an example to help me understand how EotE's encumbrance rules work (over here, if you're interested).  I wasn't trying to build a Fett-clone myself (buh-dum tish), he's just the exemplar for the Gadgeteer spec.  The closest we came to making him work was using Kyla's suggestion of Laminate with the Superior attachment.


Edited by Col. Orange, 27 February 2014 - 04:05 AM.

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#31 Sturn

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:24 AM

First off and most importantly, everyone is right in their own game world.

 

Short story, Boba is wearing heavily modified and rigged Laminate (all possible with no house rules). Long story with a tangent, keep reading.

 

My opinion will not have much EU in it since I've never read anything on the Mandos. So, I only have this to determine what Boba is wearing:

 

boba-jango-main.jpg

 

I've got those images plus the descriptions of armors in the core book.

 

Tangent - When reading descriptions, Heavy Battle Armor causes a problem for me. The picture shows a nearly full suit of hardened armor. The description (page 170) speaks of how it can be a "sealed" suit but throws in at the end it could also just be a "heavy vest and blast helmet".

 

Wait a second. That means, by game mechanics, the following are the same thing:

 

Heavy Vest and Blast Helmet

veers_armor.jpg

 

Mandalorian Armor

180px-MandalorianKOTOR.jpg

 

That's like saying a normal lightsaber, a short lightsaber, and a double lightsaber are all the same thing by game mechanics. They are just varieties of the same thing that happen to look a bit different. That doesn't sit well with me. Make that Mandalorian Armor the actual Heavy Battle Armor and give the Blast Helmet + Blast Vest some new stats (Defense 0 Soak 2, Cr 2000, Enc 3, HP 2, Rarity 4) perhaps? Don't try to convince me they are the same thing. There's a large enough difference in the loss of four limbs of armor, even in a narrative game, to make my realism meter go haywire.

 

Back to Boba's armor. I'm all about movie canon first and my personal opinion is that Boba's armor was what he inheritied from Jango, but beat up with a few pieces missing. So what was Jango's? The movie even mentions Jango's armor was the basis for the Clone Troopers' armor. They look similar. What was the Clone Troopers' armor? Laminate. Jango's Laminate would of course have been Superior (an attachment in game terms).

 

So Boba is wearing his dad's Laminate with the Superior quality (page 157), but it's battered with a few pieces missing. Laminate is Soak 2 Enc 4, but since Jango's is Superior we start with Soak 3 and Encumbrance 3. The older battered version I would argue has lost its Superior quality/attachment, so it's back to simple Laminate, Soak 2 Enc 4. 

 

Boba is a legendary Bounty Hunter. What he is exactly in game terms is up for discussion in another thread, but we can at least agree he's a Bounty Hunter with quite a few talents up the Gadgeteer tree.

 

I give him two Jury Rig talents. I'll save one for his EE-3 carbine. The other I use on his armor. He's all about mobility so I lower his Laminate's encumbrance from 4 to 2 by (narratively speaking) discarding some of his dad's leg armor (see picture above). He also has Armor Master so he increases his Soak by a point for an overall benefit of Soak 3 when wearing his Laminate. Tinkerer he applies to his armor giving it 4 HP's instead of the original 3.  If you really want him more badass and think he's nearly maxed out the Gadgeteer tree, you could add Improved Armor Master and give him a Defense of 1 when wearing his Laminate. At this point we then have:

 

Boba's Laminate (when worn by himself, before attachments): Defense 0 or 1, Soak 3, Encumbrance 2, Hard Points 4.

 

4 Hard Points. Using Core, there isn't much to pick from. Perhaps later with more options I would adjust what I picked, but not wanting to make house rules and skimming over Boba's wookiepedia entry I pick: Cortosis Weave (2 hard points, probably already applied when obtained by Jango), Thermal Shielding System (1 hard point, his jumpsuit plus new coatings on the armor), and Enhanced Optics Suite w/Vigilance mod (1 hard point, his badass helmet).

 

Final results: Defense 0 or 1, Soak 3, Encumbrance 2, Immune to Pierce, Immune to Breach, Removes 2 Setback to checks due to extreme heat/fire, Removes 2 Setback to Perception/Vigilance/Combat checks due to vision obstructions, +1 Vigilance skill.

 

Edit to Add: What if a player picks up his discarded suit and wears it? It would lose the Armor Master, Jury Rigging, and Tinkerer bonsues of Boba and so would be Defense 0, Soak 2, Encumbrance 4, Hard Points 3. Loss of Hard Points from 4 to 3 perhaps means the player can't fit quite right in the jumpsuit, losing the Thermal Shielding System:

 

Boba's armor worn by another: Defense 0, Soak 2, Encumbrance 4, Hard Points 3, Immune to Pierce, Immune to Breach, Removes 2 Setback to Perception/Vigilance/Combat checks due to vision obstructions, +1 Vigilance skill.


Edited by Sturn, 28 February 2014 - 08:34 AM.


#32 progressions

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:01 AM

Sturn, remember that the specific details of most things in the game are based on the circumstances.

 

If you had a character with the Heavy Vest and Blast Helmet and you didn't want them to be able to seal that armor because it doesn't make any sense, then that armor can't be sealed because it wouldn't make any sense...


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#33 Agatheron

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

I really think we are over complicating it.

Wookiepedia:
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_Shock_Trooper_Armor

This is the type that both Fetts, and the Deathwatch wear.

In the Edge of the Empire Rulebook, Mandalorian Shock Trooper Armor is specifically described as a type of Heavy Battle Armor.

Sure Boba has done modifications, which is another matter in terms of the talent tree... But the base starting armor is already established.
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#34 Sturn

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

I really think we are over complicating it.

Wookiepedia:
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_Shock_Trooper_Armor

This is the type that both Fetts, and the Deathwatch wear.

In the Edge of the Empire Rulebook, Mandalorian Shock Trooper Armor is specifically described as a type of Heavy Battle Armor.

 

Good point on the description in the Core book, I had no idea what "Mandalorian Shock Trooper Armor" was since I really don't include EU in my canon except on a case by case basis.

 

If the EU calls what Jango wears to be MSTA, then how does that coincide with Clone Trooper laminate armor being based upon Jango's armor which in game terms is of a completely different class? You end up having to explain it away by saying it was only based on it, made much lighter, and so was only laminate. That kind of stuff is why I tend to avoid EU. An author says it is so without considering all of the ramifications to other canon and we are forced to accept it with yet another explanation and/or contradiction. Jango Armor = Clone Trooper Armor = Stormtrooper Armor (at least it should be all in the same class) per the best source of canon we have. Then Core says Jango Armor is Heavy Battle Armor while Stormtrooper Armor is Laminate?? 

 

As I said, to each his own. I just can't accept that what Boba is wearing is the heaviest class of armor available in game terms when actually looking at it. It's a jump suit with breastplate and helm. That looks pretty light and mobile, not the heaviest stuff available.

 

First off and most importantly, everyone is right in their own game world.

 

Short story, Boba is wearing heavily modified and rigged Laminate (all possible with no house rules).

 

My opinion will not have much EU in it since I've never read anything on the Mandos.

 

------ Below is completely getting off OP-topic----------------

 

Sturn, remember that the specific details of most things in the game are based on the circumstances.

 

If you had a character with the Heavy Vest and Blast Helmet and you didn't want them to be able to seal that armor because it doesn't make any sense, then that armor can't be sealed because it wouldn't make any sense...

 

Are your players specifying what version of Heavy Battle Armor they have? The sealed versus the unsealed? Is that being noted on their character sheet, if so?  If you are going to get into specific sub-versions with your descriptions which actually have in-game differences (sealed vs unsealed) then why not make it a completely different item?  That's just as easy as making a player put a note on his sheet saying if he has the sealed or unsealed version. That would only cause some players to then ask for a price and encumbrance reduction since they are opting for the unsealed version. See the issues?

 

I know I know it's just appearances and why should it matter in a game? Back to my double lightsaber having the same stats as a regular lightsaber. If it's just appearances then why have seperate stats?

 

Warhammer FFG using the same rules sytems had Great Weapons and Hand Weapons as two of the most common weapons. Great Weapons included in their description (with the same game stats) 2-handed battle axes, 2-handed swords, and 2-handed hammers. Hand Weapons included a 1-handed sword, battle axe, hammer, mace, etc all with the same game stats. I had a problem with that too and had to differentiate them in my campaign. I guess it's the same thing for me when giving Helmet + Vest and full-on full heavy body armor the same stats.

 

Maybe it's just me but I'm thinking others might have the same issues. I'm not suggesting something complicated, just thinking those two descriptions are so different they should be different items. Should Armored Clothing, Padded Armor, and Heavy Clothing all have the same game stats, they just have different appearances? No their descriptions are different enough to justify a new type of armor in game terms. Just as I think a fully enclosed suit of hardened "heavy" battle armor should be something different then what General Veers is wearing.



#35 Slyck

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:51 PM

Jango Armor = Clone Trooper Armor = Stormtrooper Armor (at least it should be all in the same class) per the best source of canon we have. Then Core says Jango Armor is Heavy Battle Armor while Stormtrooper Armor is Laminate?? 
 

 

Here's where I disagree (and made an account to do it, go Internet).  Clone trooper armour is a mass produced version of an expertly crafted masterpiece.  Stormtrooper armour is a replica of clone trooper armour from the same military complex that gives us TIE fighters.  Its easy to say Jango's Armour (Superior Heavy Battle)  > Clone Trooper armour (Heavy Battle) > Stormtrooper armour (Laminate).


Edited by Slyck, 28 February 2014 - 01:52 PM.

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#36 Sturn

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:52 PM

Conceding to the Heavy Battle Armor argument, here is a version of Boba's armor with the HBA as a base:

 

Boba is wearing his dad's Heavy Battle Armor with the Superior quality (page 157), but it's battered with a few pieces missing. HBA is Defense 1 Soak 2 Enc 6, but since Jango's is Superior we start with Soak 3 and Encumbrance 5. The older battered version I would argue has lost its Superior quality/attachment, so it's back to simple HBA, Defense 1 Soak 2 Enc 6.

 

Boba is a legendary Bounty Hunter. What he is exactly in game terms is up for discussion in another thread, but we can at least agree he's a Bounty Hunter with quite a few talents up the Gadgeteer tree.

 

I give him two Jury Rig talents. I'll save one for his EE-3 carbine. The other I use on his armor. He's all about mobility so I lower his HBA's encumbrance from 6 to 4 by (narratively speaking) discarding some of his dad's leg armor (see picture above). He also has Armor Master so he increases his Soak by a point for an overall benefit of Soak 3 when wearing his HBA. Tinkerer he applies to his armor giving it 5 HP's instead of the original 4. If you really want him more badass and think he's nearly maxed out the Gadgeteer tree, you could add Improved Armor Master and give him a Defense of 2 when wearing his HBA. At this point we then have:

 

Boba's HBA (when worn by himself, before attachments): Defense 2, Soak 3, Encumbrance 4, Hard Points 5.

 

5 Hard Points. Using Core, there isn't much to pick from. Perhaps later with more options I would adjust what I picked, but not wanting to make house rules and skimming over Boba's wookiepedia entry I pick: Cortosis Weave (2 hard points, probably already applied when obtained by Jango), Thermal Shielding System (1 hard point, his jumpsuit plus new coatings on the armor), Enhanced Optics Suite w/Vigilance mod (1 hard point, his badass helmet), Heating System (1 hard point, again the jump suit?).

 

Final results: Defense 2, Soak 3, Encumbrance 4, Immune to Pierce, Immune to Breach, Removes 2 Setback to checks due to extreme heat/fire, Removes 2 Setback to Perception/Vigilance/Combat checks due to vision obstructions, +1 Vigilance skill, Removes 2 Setback to checks from extreme cold, Reduces Resilience checks from extreme cold by 1 Difficulty.



#37 Sturn

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

 

 

Here's where I disagree (and made an account to do it, go Internet).  Clone trooper armour is a mass produced version of an expertly crafted masterpiece.  Stormtrooper armour is a replica of clone trooper armour from the same military complex that gives us TIE fighters.  Its easy to say Jango's Armour (Superior Heavy Battle)  > Clone Trooper armour (Heavy Battle) > Stormtrooper armour (Laminate).

 

 

So this is Heavy Battle Armor...

 

CloneTrooperPhase2Armor-RotSVD.jpg

 

 

But this is Laminate?...

 

Stormarmor_negwt.jpg

Looks pretty close to the same thing to me.

 

Superior (Jango) versus non-Superior (Clone/Stormtrooper) I'm on board with from the start. Making that Clone Trooper stuff above be a completely different set of armor from the Stormtrooper below I can't agree with.



#38 Slyck

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:32 PM

I can believe it. Stormtroopers are all about fear. Make them look like something badass (clone troopers), but cut the cost on materials and craftsmanship because we're gonna want a lot of them.

Edited by Slyck, 28 February 2014 - 02:36 PM.


#39 HiroKedyn

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:54 PM

I can believe it. Stormtroopers are all about fear. Make them look like something badass (clone troopers), but cut the cost on materials and craftsmanship because we're gonna want a lot of them.

You basically hit the nail on the head with that. Stormtrooper armor is laminate to save the empire money and to cash in on the looks of the fearsome clone troopers.



#40 Agatheron

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:14 PM

I don't think Jango Fett's armour had cortosis weave. Just ask Mace Windu...

 

I think the trouble is, we are trying to overstate something that is intended to be more abstract. Boba Fett was a capable bounty hunter to be sure, but in part it was because he knew (at least in the universe) how to foster a reputation. That much he picked up from his "Dad" and was able to work to his advantage. In game terms, he may have modified the heavy battle armour a bit, but I suspect that more of that can be understood in terms of the talent tree.

 

The reality is, Boba Fett simply looked menacing on the screen, with that cool looking battle-worn armour that implied a story. We never really saw him do anything except use an ensnaring wire against Luke, and then get hit in the backpack with a polearm.

 

In terms of the "best armour in the game" --that's no longer the case. Dangerous Covenants now gives players access to Power Armour (Soak 3, Defense 1, increases Brawn and Athletics, and has built in sensors); There's also Steelskin Armor (Soak 3), and the Protector 1 Combat Armor, which is a less encumbering form of the Heavy Battle Armour from the CRB. So there are more choices out there.


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